Math Therapy

S3E02: The math teacher that changed my life w/ Ewa Kasinska

April 15, 2021 The Math Guru Season 3 Episode 2
Math Therapy
S3E02: The math teacher that changed my life w/ Ewa Kasinska
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

It is no exaggeration to say that this podcast (and Vanessa’s entire career in math education) would not exist if she hadn't crossed paths with superhero math teacher Ewa Kasinska in high school. Today, Ewa spills the tea on what Vanessa was like as a 17-year-old, how she managed to turn a math-hater into a Math Guru, and what the media gets wrong about teachers, and she also shares her fave tips for teachers on how to engage, inspire, and excite even the most skeptical students.  Ewa also came VERY prepared, and the conversation starts out basically like an episode of Ellen with a blast from Vanessa’s past!

About Ewa

Ewa Kasinska is a mathematics tutor, teacher, and principal who provides support in ways which ensure each student's success. Whether a student wishes to maintain high results, or has often struggled with the subject, Ewa knows how to help. She explains “how” and “why”, not simply guides towards solutions. You can find her at www.mathwitheva.ca

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Transcript for today’s episode: www.maththerapypodcast.com

Ewa Kasinska  0:00  (Intro quote)
So if you have passionate teachers who enjoy interacting with students, who want to help them, that really provides a very nurturing environment.

Ewa Kasinska  0:12  (Intro quote)
I would call parents and say, "Vanessa just got 98 on a test - I am so excited." So I wanted to infect my students with this positive energy.

Vanessa Vakharia  0:23  (Show intro)
Hi, I'm Vanessa Vakharia, aka The Math Guru. And you're listening to Math Therapy, a podcast that helps guests work through their math traumas one problem at a time. Whether you think you're a math person or not, you're about to find out that math people don't actually exist. But the scars that math class left on many of us definitely do. Oh, and don't worry, no calculators or actual math were involved in the making of this podcast.

Vanessa Vakharia  0:48  (Episode intro)
Oh my god, welcome to this week of Math Therapy. And seriously, do I have a treat for you! Okay, you guys know how I like, never shut the fuck up about the fact that I failed grade 11 math twice before meeting a teacher who would forever change my life? Well, I'm about to talk to THAT teacher. I am not kidding. Ewa Kasinska was not only my high school math teacher and mentor, but she became a close friend. Like for real - we make christmas crafts together every year, it's a thing. Like any good teacher, Ewa was VERY prepared for our interview, like kind of TOO prepared to be honest. And she totally shocked me with a blast for my educational past, just you wait. She also shared her tips for how to draw in even the most disengaged math students. She is truly amazing, and I wouldn't be who I am today without her. So let's do it.

Vanessa Vakharia  1:36  
Eva, welcome to the podcast!

Vanessa Vakharia  1:38  
Oh, my goodness, what a beautiful introduction. Thank you so much, Vanessa.

Vanessa Vakharia  1:42  
I know, I mean, I kind of feel bad that it has taken three seasons to put you on the podcast, so please accept my apology.

Vanessa Vakharia  1:48  
Apology accepted. Thank you for inviting me, because it is truly my pleasure to be here. And to still be part of your incredible math journey.

Vanessa Vakharia  1:59  
Okay, well, I want to honestly say - it's so funny, because I was like, looking over these questions, and I don't think I've directly asked you any of these questions - we're just like, colleagues and friends now, I mean, I still call you and ask you advice every month, at least at minimum. But we don't actually talk about how this all began! So I am very interested to just start by asking you, do you remember meeting me? And you can say no, I'm not going to be offended, you have like 1000s of students? Maybe? I don't know, that might be a big number. But I think so.

Vanessa Vakharia  2:29  
Yes. I've probably had that many. But of course, I remember. I remember meeting you, I remember your attitude, right away.

Vanessa Vakharia  2:42  
What was it?

Vanessa Vakharia  2:44  
Well, you were a very confident young woman who was new to the school and just decided to approach me and, you know, give me her own opinion of herself.

Vanessa Vakharia  2:54  
So I'm not making that up? Because I was like, what if I'm making this all up? What did I say? I mean, you don't have to remember the exact words -

Vanessa Vakharia  3:00  
Well, the message was, you know, "I hate math. So there, deal with it". And that was, in essence, what you told me. And I took that on as a challenge. And I think we both sort of started off trying to challenge each other, where you're going to prove to me that this is all useless. And I was trying to draw you in and give you opportunities to come to your senses and realize that you are more than capable of doing well. But ... I want to share a surprise I have for you, because it's been many years since -

Vanessa Vakharia  3:41  
Oh my god, wait, what?!  I feel like this is like the Ellen Show. What do you mean a surprise, what?!

Vanessa Vakharia  3:45  
Oh yeah, I have I have some - just wait! Okay? Be patient for a second.

Vanessa Vakharia  3:49  
I'm getting hot.

Ewa Kasinska  3:49  
Yes, good. So because I had to refresh my own memory because it's been ... X years, I found some original documents to support our conversation. I have some high school progress notes and report cards, which I don't own - but guess what? Your parents were complicit in this, and they shared their family Ike archives with me.

Vanessa Vakharia  4:14  
Wait, what, guys I feel freaked out!! This is crazy. I feel like you've been like chatting with them?!

Vanessa Vakharia  4:20  
Okay, you know I know your parents, right? We do interact. So just be quiet now for a while. Pretend you're in class, your teacher told you to shush. So I am reading, and I can then share the original document with you or better your parents can share it with you. So this is a progress note I wrote to you halfway through the course you were taking with me. "Vanessa has been working at a uniquely high level in this course obtaining consistent scores of 100% on quizzes, and above 95% on tests and the midterm exam. The stellar performance deserves the highest words of praise. I am proud of Vanessa's achievement, and wish her continued motivation and success. Her enthusiasm is inspirational to her classmates and a true asset to the daily lessons. Congratulations, Vanessa."

Vanessa Vakharia  5:11  
Okay, I'm literally crying.

Ewa Kasinska  5:14  
That's not all. Because not only did I write this paragraph, there were learning - this is before the days of learning skills on report cards as we have them now - but because it was a progress note, it broke down various categories.  "Aptitude: excellent." Haha. "Homework: excellent.  Test results: excellent. Attendance: very good. Oral participation: very good. Assignment results: excellent. Conduct: good."

Vanessa Vakharia  5:42  
Why?? What does that mean?

Vanessa Vakharia  5:44  
Well, what do I remember? I think you were just a bit of a shit disturber in class occasionally. And I think that's why you couldn't score "very good" or "excellent" in combat. But skill development was excellent. So your mark was 98% at that point, while the class average was 63 - so, slightly above class average is where you placed.

Vanessa Vakharia  6:13  
I'm actually glad you gave context for those people who are gonna say, "Oh, you went to an alternative school, all the grades are inflated."

Vanessa Vakharia  6:19  
No, no, no, no, that's not what the school was. And that's why class average is important, because it puts your mark in perspective. No, not everybody got an A. There are many schools where that happens. But that's not the school you attended. That's not the school where I taught. 

Vanessa Vakharia  6:35  
This is crazy. This is so crazy. I don't even like I really feel so emotional right now. I mean, you're making me feel famous, like the fact that you went behind the scenes, talked to my parents, are here shocking me with a surprise, like this happens on Oprah.

Vanessa Vakharia  6:54  
Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, parents hold on to these things. So I knew where to search for the originals. But you asked me what I remember about you as a student. So clearly, you became a stellar student in math in no time, but you were not the math activist you became later. So another reminder, and this I dug up in my own archives from the yearbook in your graduating high school year - you did not get the math award, sadly,

Vanessa Vakharia  7:27  
No, but you remember why? Because it was a math AND science award. I remember being really like, we were both like, kind of - you weren't annoyed, but I was like, "I should have gotten the math award", but they clumped it with math and science and I didn't take any sciences.

Vanessa Vakharia  7:40  
I know. I know - that math and science award was named after my grandmother. So, long story. 

Vanessa Vakharia  7:46  
Oh!

Ewa Kasinska  7:46  
Yeah, it's all in the family. Yeah, my grandmother was the first woman to enroll in the Faculty of Natural Sciences at the University of Geneva in 1914. But then, you know, something like World War One happened. So, school shut down. So - sort of like similar to what we have today.

Vanessa Vakharia  8:07  
(laughing)

Ewa Kasinska  8:07  
They shut down. They didn't have internet, so she had to go back home. Anyhow. So, so back to Vanessa, and her graduating year of high school did not get the math award. Instead, she got the French language award, and the Visual Arts Award. We're talking about Vanessa, who was getting stellar, perfect marks in math, who decides not to pursue math, per se at University, but goes off to do a marketing degree or something like that?

Vanessa Vakharia  8:38  
Well, and that is very much because I forgot, I actually did not know that university applications were due, I guess? Maybe this is part of my conduct? And I remember, you know, we had that booklet, you didn't do it online, you had a physical book. Right? And I I was like, I have to hand something in. So I quickly went through the book, and I just checked off a bunch of stuff that said "marketing", because I thought in my mind that marketing was the same as like what we now call graphic design. And I was like, "oh, it'll be like designing ads!". And I just threw it in. So I was like, oh, art, whatever, like business-y art - my thought was: now that I can do math, maybe that means I can do something business-y, which means maybe I can combine art with it, except that this marketing degree had NOTHING to do with art literally at all, which I was shocked to discover when I landed up in university.

Vanessa Vakharia  9:22  
Okay, we need to backup because I always try and describe the school, and the way I describe it I think is probably not full picture. Like, I think I'm doing a disservice by not explaining why this school was so instrumental in changing not only my life, but the lives of other students because I think that education as a whole has a lot to learn from this model. And the model isn't just, "oh, we call teachers by their first names". There's more to it than that. So what would you say is like the main difference?

Vanessa Vakharia  9:49  
The way I saw it, and I was, just for anybody who's listening, I was at that school from the day it was first opened to the day it closed its door. So I was there through all the phases, through smaller and larger enrollment, and I saw the school evolve. I think the main thing is that having smaller class sizes allows for much closer interaction. And yes, students call teachers on a first name basis, but we were not all hippies. I certainly never was a hippie or aspired - some teachers, you know, we did have one staff member who went to Woodstock.

Vanessa Vakharia  10:27  
(laughing)

Ewa Kasinska  10:27  
And that's the only human being I know who went there. And he taught with us. So of course, there you go, hippie galore. But not all of our staff were hippies. So I think what made the school unique is that all of us who taught, loved our subject matter, we became teachers because we wanted to be teachers. And we were all extremely passionate about the subjects that we taught to our students. Remember, I also taught Spanish and you were part of that class. And that was a huge fun-and-game time for me. So I think being passionate about your subject makes a big difference. But not only did we care about our subjects, we liked interacting with the students. A private school has that ability to sort of filter out staff who perhaps don't have that personality. Like in any profession, there are people who are more engaged and less engaged in what they do. I mean, just as human beings, that's how we are. And we know how impressionable young people are, whether they're seven years old, or seventeen years old, the teachers attitude rubs off on the students. So if you have passionate teachers who enjoy interacting with students, who want to help them, that really provides a very nurturing environment.

Vanessa Vakharia  11:54  
Well, what do you think - because one of the main things I remember is obviously those things, but I remember there being a very different feeling in the air, and I'll tell you what it is. And this is why I bring up the like, "Oh, we call teachers by their first names". I feel like we weren't treated like kids, right? Like, we ARE, sure we were, but there was a mutual respect there. So I feel - this is gonna sound silly, but I want everyone to keep in mind that this was a long time ago - the fact that we had smoke breaks. I mean, it wasn't like,

Vanessa Vakharia  12:21  
You did NOT have smoke breaks, you did not - don't you bring that up, because in terms of the track record, which teacher suspended the most kids for smoking? Sadly - or gadly, that was me. So no, you did not have smoke breaks.

Vanessa Vakharia  12:34  
Ok ok, let me say it this way. There was a recognition, there was a recognition that students needed time between classes ...

Vanessa Vakharia  12:40  
It was not for smoking.

Vanessa Vakharia  12:42  
(laughing)

Ewa Kasinska  12:43  
I'm sorry, this is, this is how kids like to portray it. And in a moment, you're gonna tell me there were ashtrays in the classroom? No. Forget it. 

Vanessa Vakharia  12:54  
(laughing) Fine. Let me start again, forget the break thing, forgot smoking - I would say there was a recognition that we were teenagers and the topics brought up in class, for example, I can just remember like, my English class, or my art - like, an art class was a great example where we had free reign to explore our talents. Like I remember my art project I did was completely different than someone else's. So we were given more autonomy and trust with the accountability to like, explore what was interesting to us within the confines of the curriculum.

Vanessa Vakharia  13:24  
Absolutely. And so this, I can allow that being said, this shows teachers who knew enough about their subject to understand that reaching beyond - first of all, they have to know their subject, be confident - because they knew how to guide students who were pushing boundaries. They knew how to promote that. And yes, there was conversation on many levels in the classroom. I will tell you, this is before your times because it was in a different physical location that we were at at that point, where one of my students in the middle of grade 11 math said "You know, I've been working at Shoppers Drug Mart now for two months. And the other day, I was stacking the shelves with feminine hygiene products, and I don't get it. Why are there so many different types of tampons?" So he brings this up in the middle of a grade 11 math class, at which point I say "okay, girls, each one of you go dig out of your purse what you have". And we did a demonstration in class. We had beakers from the science lab, we poured water in and we put different tampons to see the absorbance. And so we had a full health and sex ed lesson in the middle of grade 11 math class. 

Ewa Kasinska  14:41  
So that's the type of conversation students felt confident enough to bring up. And the teachers - I'm not the only one but obviously I'm using my own example - were not embarrassed to discuss it. We did not shush him, or tell him, you know, ask your mother. No, we dealt with it on the spot and I think that made the students feel much more willing to come to class, they were willing to do the math. And at the same time just deal with any life questions they had.  A lot of our students, and you're a prime example of that, were students who were very intellectually capable, but somehow not motivated, not engaged, be it in the big public schools, or the big traditional uniform private schools. And they thrived in this alternate setting. So how many students can say they did an experiment about tampon absorbency in grade 11 Math?

Vanessa Vakharia  15:35  
Yeah!

Vanessa Vakharia  15:35  
Probably not that many. And I obviously still remember the name of that fellow who asked me that question. Because I thought why not? Let's do it. Let's teach him. It's a teaching moment.

Vanessa Vakharia  15:46  
Well, this is so funny, because now I'm remembering we did something similar because I became obsessed with the Second Cup coffee lids versus the Starbucks lids because there was a rim on one of them. And I was like, "this is so fucking annoying". And everyone in class was like, let's figure out what the dimensions are for the ideal sip from a coffee cup! Like I actually now - this memory just came to light right now! And we brought in the different cups, and we were measuring them - I don't even know if we did it in class time, I actually think we did this on our SPARE time! Like, you know what I mean? We were like, "we need to figure this out!" So that's actually so cool.

Vanessa Vakharia  16:18  
And, okay, so it's funny, I tell everyone, when I tell the story, I say "and then I said to you, I'm not a math person. And you're like, there's no such thing as a math person". And I don't know that that actually happened ... but something about that school and definitely about you was that there was not this overt divide between the types of people who are good at different things. So there were, for context for anyone who's listening, there were only, like, 100 kids in the whole school at the time. So it wasn't the type of thing where there was cliques like "the chess club" and "the cheerleaders" - it wasn't like that.  There were 100 people, we all got along, we all respected each other. And there was no - I never got this idea from you that because I was good at visual art, that I couldn't also be good at math, that narrative did not exist. So I think while you may have not said the words to me, "there's no such thing as a math person", I could feel from you that you didn't have that idea that I could only be good at one thing. And that's what allowed me actually to open myself up to succeeding. But I actually do want to want to know your views - I mean, we've never explicitly talked about it, but do you think that like, there are certain types of people who can't do math?

Vanessa Vakharia  17:27  
No. First of all, while I don't like the label, I would say that we're all math people, because we all use math every day. Now, do we all use limits of multifunction variables? No. But every single human being that does something during their day in life uses math. Money - who doesn't think about money daily? Everybody. There you go, we're using arithmetic. The example you and I use for encouraging kids, cooking in the kitchen: adjusting dimensions, adjusting quantities, ratios, proportions. So we are all math people. But does that mean that we all love higher math? No. Right? Does that mean we all HAVE to love higher math? No, that's okay. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. But for some reason, math is surrounded by this shroud of negative feelings, these vibes, these scary vibes. And why? I wish there was an easy answer. I mean, we've got psychologists, educators, economists, trying to understand those reasons.

Vanessa Vakharia  18:45  
So when you set out to become a teacher, did you set out to change people's relationships in math?

Vanessa Vakharia  18:52  
Well, no, that was not my goal. My goal was much more modest. I pretty much always knew I wanted to be a teacher. You know, with the advent of social media, I reconnected with some childhood friends, and you know, "What are you doing in adult life?" And they said, "Well, of course, we knew you'd be a teacher, you always said you'd be a teacher". So really, I had that desire in me. But when I started teaching, I promised myself that I would give myself a few years to realize if - and I promised myself to try to be as objective as possible - to see if I'm one of those teachers who are a joke that nobody listens to. And you know, they stand at the front of the board, and nobody knows what they're talking about, or whether I will be able to connect with the students. And I always knew I wanted to teach high school - so, teenagers - and so I wanted to be an engaging teacher. And so gradually, as I got more confident as a teacher, I realized there are ways in which I can tweak my methodology to reach kids better to help them. 

Ewa Kasinska  20:00  
But one of the things I noticed already as I was doing my practicum during my university years, is that I was able to ask good questions. There's, when you're teaching math, there's one thing to be able to explain, show an example. But if you just do it, as a demonstration, you lose the audience, because let's face it, kids will drift off. And, you know, I was fortunate that most of my teaching years were done before kids had a phone in their pocket. So the ability to get distracted was a little more controlled by me. But you have to engage the audience. And how do you engage a classroom full of teenagers who really would rather not be there, regardless of the subject, and that is to keep questions bouncing back and forth. And being able to ask these scaffolded, incremental, tiny questions, so that I don't just stand there saying, "and now you do this. And now you do this. And do you understand?" ... (student) "Yeah".  Like, you often bring up the idea that media portrays math as something not accessible to girls or to students of color, I've listened to your podcast - to me, media shows teachers as absolute morons.

Vanessa Vakharia  21:24  
It's so true, actually, you're right!

Vanessa Vakharia  21:26  
And it's just like lecturing. They're just standing there with this boring monotone voice and they don't want to be there. So I feel like shaking that up.

Vanessa Vakharia  21:34  
Actually, you know what, you're right, I never focus on the perception of teachers in the media. And that is actually a big reason why teachers are seen as jokes sometimes.

Vanessa Vakharia  21:42  
Exactly. So I was not a joke. I - well, I hope not, that's for you to judge.

Vanessa Vakharia  21:47  
Well I mean, you're hilarious, you make jokes. (laughing)

Vanessa Vakharia  21:50  
Amazing ones. (laughing) And keeping the conversation going. So that taught me the more I questions I asked, the more I got the students drawn in. And that taught me how to be a motivating teacher.

Vanessa Vakharia  22:04  
Oh, my God, I love it. That is so, that was such great advice for anyone listening. And also, yeah, such a call out to media as well. I'm going to start making a scene about that too, because that is actually so true! 

Vanessa Vakharia  22:18  
Okay, we're unfortunately running out of time, which is really sad. But I want to ask you this - I remember, like you said, at the school we were having real life conversations, and often real life came into the math classroom. And you were more than just a teacher, obviously, you were like a human being person who I really admired, and who I looked to as like, you know, I obviously still do ... but, you know, did you consider any of what you were doing to be kind of like Math Therapy? Like did that ever occurred to you?

Ewa Kasinska  22:48  
Well I don't think I would have described it that way, but I really wanted - like, I would get excited when a student would get a question right. I would jump up, I would applaud. I remember marking students tests and I was compulsive about marking them the same day, because I knew the students were anxious to know their feedback. So I would call parents in the evening and say, "Vanessa just got 98 on a test. I am so excited". I wanted to share the news. So I wanted to infect my students with this positive energy.

Vanessa Vakharia  23:31  
And you, did you really did, I remember you - nonviolently everyone - but you would like walk around the class smacking desks with a meter stick when you were just like really excited, or so excited that you wanted us to shut up, so probably me ... 

Vanessa Vakharia  23:43  
Please stress that I was smacking desks, not students.

Vanessa Vakharia  23:45  
The desks! The desks, yes it was for emphasis. (laughing)

Vanessa Vakharia  23:48  
Ok, I have to ask the final two questions. Now the first question is, what would you say to someone who doesn't think they're a math person? But you've kind of answered that so I kind of want to change it to: what would you say to someone who's really struggling in class? Like I'm sure over the years, obviously, you've dealt with students who just like, despite your best efforts aren't really doing so great and feel shitty about themselves. What's your strategy for other teachers to know, what do you do?

Vanessa Vakharia  24:15  
Well, you know, part of it is for the student to gain enough confidence to ask questions. And for teenagers who are very self conscious to raise their hand in class, that's often a hurdle they're not willing to handle to do it in real time in the classroom. So do they have the motivation to seek that help after school? Because drowning in that pool of negative feelings is not going to change the situation, I mean, they have to get through three years of high school math and that requirement is not going away. So they have to learn how to ask somebody for help. Asking even a good friend, a classmate outside of class time is also a possibility, but that's only in high school.  Younger students, working with other kids, that's a little tricky. It's harder for them to explain and support each other.

Vanessa Vakharia  25:14  
But what if someone's like, what if a kid is just like, "yeah, Ewa you know what, I've tried so hard, I've done all these things, I'm only getting a 60, I guess I'm just dumb and not good at math." Like, how would you respond to that? You know what I mean, because I know, we don't have the exact same viewpoint. But how do you make - because I'm always concerned with kids carrying that into adulthood, this feeling of stupidity?

Ewa Kasinska  25:37  
Well, that is unfortunate. And that's one of the reasons why there are different tiers of math in high school for students who are otherwise intellectually very capable of moving on to university, is to give them that chance of feeling better about themselves. So there's no shame in doing grade 10 applied math versus grade 10 academic math, there is a very good reason why those courses exist. Sadly, in many of the large schools, those courses become the hub of the kids with behavioral issues, but that's a whole separate issue. But students need to find somebody who can help them. And that help can be their classroom teacher. But they need to have the energy to ask for that help. Because it is discouraging to get 50s and 60s, even though you're putting your time in - and there's some disconnect, is it a build up and a backlog of past skills, or is it inability to study effectively?

Vanessa Vakharia  26:39  
But I think that's really the crux of it, knowing a teacher believes in you, even just saying, "Look, I believe in you. But you need to be motivated to do this, or you need to ask other people", I think that's already a huge step that maybe you're not realizing that you've already taken, right. It's like most teachers actually don't phrase it that way. Most teachers will - not most, okay, you know what, not most - but I know teachers who will say, "you know what, don't worry about math. It's just not your thing". And that's what I think is the discouraging piece. It's not discouraging to hear, "look, you have the ability to do well, but you've got to put in more effort, or you have to get help", then it's up to the kid to say, you know what, I don't actually care. And then you don't feel so discouraged and like, quote-unquote "stupid", you're just like, I'm making the choice to not even really focus on this and to be fine with my 60 as opposed to being told by someone else, "you actually can't do it. So don't even try." And that's why I think you're great.  Like you would never do that.

Vanessa Vakharia  27:28  
No, that's a very damaging attitude. Many students don't know how to do and how to study math effectively. And that's some things they need guidance with. And perhaps that's not happening in the classroom. Maybe they're tuning out, because they hate it, they come in with a negative attitude. So they just sort of filter anything that's being said, maybe a good message is being transmitted, but it's not reaching them, because they've already gone into shutdown mode.

Vanessa Vakharia  27:57  
Yeah, for sure. Okay, final question is, what would you change about the way math is taught in school? Like, if you could pick one thing?

Vanessa Vakharia  28:06  
Whoa, well, this is beyond the scope of our limited time in this interview.

Vanessa Vakharia  28:13  
(laughing)

Ewa Kasinska  28:13  
Different changes for different grades of our education system. So to put out, you asked for one I'm going to give you two, just yeah, deal with it. In elementary schools, I really feel we need math teachers. A lot of the teachers who are elementary school teachers are wonderful educators. And they are beautifully creative in many areas of the curriculum. But they're not confident and they're anxious about math. Why subject the kids to that? Why not have, just like we have a French teacher come in, we all acknowledge that the homeroom teacher doesn't necessarily have to be well versed enough in French to be able to be their French teacher. So we could just switch it up and have a math teacher come in starting, I don't know, grade three, grade four, depending on the setting. I think that would make a huge difference. An elementary specialist math teacher.

Vanessa Vakharia  29:12  
I love that. I totally agree with that. I've been saying that ever since you even planted that idea in my head. I think you did -

Vanessa Vakharia  29:17  
I might have planted it, I do feel responsible for that. For High School, a different approach. I think, if we could see more real financial math being taught, I think that would spark a bit more connection for the average teenager who shuts down. If I have time for one example of how teenagers shut down in education - there is such a thing as Pascal's triangle. Do you remember -

Vanessa Vakharia  29:25  
Oh my god, I LOVE Pascal's triangle!

Vanessa Vakharia  29:53  
I taught you in finite math. So it's a pattern, it's a triangle full of numbers with endless patterns. When my older son was in elementary school, I was invited by the teacher to come have a chat with the kids because I was a math teacher. So these kids are in grade four. And, you know, I'm trying to think "what can I do with them?" I thought, okay, I'll start drawing Pascal's triangle, I'll see if the kids pick up on the patterns. So I have, it was a mixed class, so it's grade four and five students. So I'm drawing this chart with numbers 1, 11, 121. And I'm asking the students to start noticing patterns and contributing - I could not keep up writing the patterns and putting the rules down on the board, as they were just jumping out of their seats to volunteer what they saw, this is not a lie. That same afternoon, I was teaching my OAC, which was grade 13 class, Pascal's triangle, I start putting the numbers on the board. One person says, ohhhhhh, maybe ..... 

Ewa Kasinska  31:01  
(laughing)

Ewa Kasinska  31:01  
and it's like, that's life with teenagers! You know, who are sometimes not really keen about sitting in class. So I really had to crank up my act to generate the same type of enthusiasm, or TRY to generate the same type of enthusiasm from high school kids, as the little kids had. So kids love to learn. That's the number one message here. So we need to keep them excited. And therefore teachers need to have a positive attitude. So math teachers would be helpful. In high school, we spend a gazillion - and that's a precise number - a gazillion hours studying parabolas and quadratics. And then they skip over the chapter on financial math - so like, what the heck?

Vanessa Vakharia  31:49  
And like, that's the most relevant to the kids!

Vanessa Vakharia  31:51  
Okay, so like, honestly, we are going to need to have a part two, because I have so many questions, like just personal questions, about how you feel about things in life that are math related, you know, and now like, I kind of want to go DO math knowing that I was so GOOD at math, apparently. And so ahead of my time, I feel like I maybe should go learn some math!

Vanessa Vakharia  32:09  
I can teach you.

Vanessa Vakharia  32:10  
Oh, my God! Like maybe I should learn something cool. Okay, well talk after Eva, thank you so much. This was like, I knew it was gonna be fun and like funny, but I didn't realize how fun it was going to be and you're just - you know how cool I think you are, but this just reminded me we don't often talk about teaching! You know, this really reminded me WHY you're such a great teacher. Your students are so lucky to have you and I can't even imagine how many lives you've changed, and I'm so excited to do more stuff together in the math world. Love you so much, thank you so much!

Ewa Kasinska  32:39  
I love you too.

Vanessa Vakharia  32:40  
I'll call you later.

Ewa Kasinska  32:41  
(laughing) Okay, bye Vanessa. Thank you.

Vanessa Vakharia  32:44  
Guys. Are you crying because like I am crying. And not just because now I'm low key scared of what other report card comments are lurking in my parents basement because trust me, until I met Ewa, High School was a dark scene for me, let me tell you. It truly is crazy how one person can totally change your life, and this doesn't just go for math teachers, but for anyone listening right now - the greatest gift you can give someone is the feeling that you believe in them. Seriously, try it today with anyone - it might just change your life.

Vanessa Vakharia  33:14  
If something in this episode inspired you please tweet us at @MathTherapy. And you can also follow me personally at @TheMathGuru on Instagram or Twitter. Math Therapy is hosted by me Vanessa Vakharia, produced by Sabina Wex and edited by David Kochberg. Our theme song is WVV by Goodnight, Sunrise, which is actually my band. If you know someone who needs Math Therapy or needs to hear someone else getting Math Therapy, please share this podcast and rate or review it on whatever podcast app you use - those things actually makes such a big difference. I am determined to change the culture surrounding math and to give math like, a massive makeover and I truly need your help. So spread the word. That's all for this week - stay tuned for our next episode out next Thursday.

Intro
Vanessa's 1st day of school
What's an "alternative" school?
Does a "math person" exist?
Why Ewa became a teacher
Advice for teachers with struggling students
What Ewa would change about math education
Outro

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