Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 0:03

I wanted to find my square root of possible. And I want other people to figure out what is that formula for them? What is the formula for success? Be it adults, kids, you name it, because it is magic, it's magical.

David E. Talbert: 0:18

that's what I wanted to do with this is to normalize people of color and worlds of wonder and magic and science and all that. So it is like, of course we're there. that's what we're most proud of with the film.

Vanessa Vakharia: 0:34

Okay. Okay. Ho, ho, ho, ho. That's how I was gonna start. Ho ho, ho. Merry Christmas. Okay. I'm gonna make this short and sweet because the episode speaks for itself. Literally five Christmases ago. Okay? Five years ago in 2020, I was obsessed with this Christmas movie that came out. Now don't, don't turn this off. This is not one of my normal like Hallmark romcoms. It was a Christmas movie about math, okay? It was called Jingle Jangle. It's about a little girl who saves Christmas with math. I became so obsessed with it and I was like, I want the director and producer on the podcast. And Sabina, our producer at the time, found them. And they agreed to be on the podcast, and I recorded an interview with David E Talbert, writer and director of this film, and his wife, Lyn Sisson Talbert, producer of the film. The film being Jingle Jangle. Guys, It's Christmas I don't know what you're up to. Maybe you celebrate, maybe you don't. Maybe you're like, oh, there's nothing to do, I'm so sick of rom-coms, like I can't see Lacey Chabert one more time on my screen, like, whatever. This is your moment. You are gonna finish listening to this interview. You're gonna be so inspired and you are gonna go put it on. You are, go bring your Kleenex, you don't need your calculator, but it is the most beautiful movie about math and Christmas, like it is like an actual dream. So I think that's all I'm even gonna say. Like I could not believe at the time that I got them on the podcast. I was like, I, I can't believe this is happening and I can't believe that it is their fifth anniversary and we can celebrate it by re-releasing this amazing episode. I can't wait to hear what you think. Text the podcast, hit the link in the app that you're playing. You can text me right away and let me know not only what you think of this interview, but what you think of the movie once you watch it. If you haven't already. If you have, watch it again. That's what I'm gonna do right now. Oh my God. David and Lyn, welcome to the podcast.

David E. Talbert: 2:24

Hey, thanks for having us.

Vanessa Vakharia: 2:26

Okay, so I wanna just start by telling you how I found out about this movie. So I was chilling, I was listening to CB, C, I heard you being interviewed by Tom Power and I, first of all, I'm like obsessed with Christmas, like it is like my season, it starts November 1st for me. Like it's a whole thing. And he was just, all I remember about the interview really is that he was like, oh my God. Like this guy, you know, David was watching Christmas movies with his kid and the kid never saw himself represented, so he wanted to make this movie. And I was like, oh, that sounds really nice. I'm all about representation. But then I put on the movie and I'm like. Oh my God. Oh my God. It is about it. It like, like nowhere was, it mentioned that it was about like a young black girl who's low-key math genius that saves Christmas by finding the square root of impossible. Like, do you know like

David E. Talbert: 3:13

Yes. Yes.

Vanessa Vakharia: 3:13

And I freaked out. So because I'm like literally freaking out constantly about this and can't even describe it. Can we just start by you like. Tell us what the movie's about. Like if you were gonna tell our listeners what the movie's about, what would you say?

David E. Talbert: 3:28

I'd say it is about, uh, an inventor named Veronica's Jangle the greatest inventor in all the land. And his, uh, he was betrayed by his apprentice, so he lost his mojo and he's become, he stopped believing in himself for any, any of his inventions anymore. And, uh, his granddaughter. From across town comes to see him. Little does he know, she's a, an inventor herself, and a, and a genius and a scientist and all of that, and she, the movie is about can she help, um, uh, help her grandfather find his mojo again so that everything starts working again.

Vanessa Vakharia: 4:04

I, oh my God. Oh my God. You're literally quoting one of the greatest songs of all time, by the way. So, okay. And the other thing I think everyone should know is it's a musical because actually guys, yes. I'll be honest, like I'm super into musicals, but I'm not into even musical movies. Like I was like, oh, am I gonna get into it? Oh, I was into it, like I was into it, so, okay. One of the craziest things to me about the movie. You know, I do a lot of research about representation with math in movies, and every math movie pretty much is like super boring and dry. And it's like some white dude who's like a genius and then he goes crazy because he's like, oh my God, too smart and can't have a life. But you made this movie about this like happy go lucky, like magical, wondrous film that involved math and like what possibly gave you the idea to combine math into a Christmas movie? Like where did that come from for you?

David E. Talbert: 4:53

Well, for me it was, um, I, I love math first of all. You know, I, I, like, I count in my head. I, I, I don't really write things down. I, I, I, I like it a lot, but it started because I, I flunked in college math, uh, math and business economics twice. And I said, and said, and statistics, and I said, and then I came back later and got an A in both of them'cause I understood it. And so I liked the whimsy of films like, uh, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Willie Wonka and Mary Poppins. And so I came up with this thing, the square root of the second derivative of sensational. The, uh, circumference of spectacular and the square root of Impossible, these formulas. And, um, and then Lyn, uh, really took, took them to heart and got ahold of them and made this whole book series and she really latched onto the square root of, of, of possible. And so that became her, her kind of formula for what she does.

Vanessa Vakharia: 5:56

Okay. Like it is so crazy because Christmas is about like, if I could think about joy and wonder, Christmas is what comes to mind. Like it's the most joyous of joys and like the most wondrous of wonders. But the crazy thing is, so is math, but it never gets positioned that way. Like math is like the most boring thing in school and whenever like no one thinks of it like this. So you guys have done what I consider to be like. Okay. Wow, this is so cheesy, but it is like a Christmas miracle. Like you have managed to infuse the two together, like the Christmas magic. Has somehow contagiously caught onto math through this film? Do you guys like realize what an impact this is gonna have? What kind of impact did you wanna have and are you seeing that maybe like you didn't realize how big of a deal this is?

David E. Talbert: 6:44

You wanna go?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 6:44

Yeah. Well I, for me, as he was saying, I wanted to find my square root of possible. And I want other people to figure out what is that formula for them? What is the formula for success? Be it adults, kids, you name it, and what's our square root of possible? So that's really what. What that whole theme behind it is this adding the magic to it. And I felt like we need to add the arts into stem. Yes. Mm-hmm. So it's like, as they call it steam. Yeah. Where you add the arts into stem, uh, education. And also I wanted, you know, girls to feel good about being smart. Because it is magic, it's magical. And all of these girls out there, if you just listen to anything that Journey's character says in her songs and, and what you know when she starts, you know. Moving around with that ball of magic and her formulas and they just come to life. It makes it just way more exciting. Yeah. And we have a 7-year-old son and we have to find ways to make things enticing and exciting. Mm-hmm. And to wanna do, and we wanna do it this way and we wanna see it, and it makes us happy and magical and feel good. It's gonna make him wanna do it. In turn, other children wanna do it.

Vanessa Vakharia: 8:05

Yeah, a a hundred percent. And one of the things I loved about it, like when I'm trying to explain it to people, I'm like, guys, you don't understand. It's about an inventor. Like think about how cool it is to be an inventor. Like it's almost like, okay, at this day and age, no one understands that, right? Like everyone's like making new apps and doing this and that. But I love how simple it was that like. You almost didn't even like the, it, it didn't matter what he was inventing. It was such a simple thing. I won't like give it away, but it was like the gizmos and the gadgets and the fact that he was just making something out of nothing became so magical. And I kind of think like, you know, I do a lot of work with like, let's get kids into coding and, and you're kind of like. I don't know, like that doesn't seem that, you know. Cool. Mm-hmm. I get that we're making something, but I like that you took that idea and made it tangible and magical, and I think, like, I literally get goosebumps when I'm talking about this because that, I know you're not like in education and you're filmmakers, but that is what is missing literally from education, from the classroom, like, mm-hmm.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 9:05

No, you're so right.

Vanessa Vakharia: 9:06

Yeah, I, no, feel free to say more about that because I was gonna about to ask you like what, because I still think it's so crazy that you chose to go this route because normally like the two don't meet like Lyn. Do you have any specific experiences with math or that or where you felt that way?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 9:20

Yes. So my father was an optometrist. He was actually one of the first black optometrists licensed in the state of Nevada. My mother trained to be a nurse. She's actually a math genius in her own right. And my father said, you know, before he passed that she should have been the doctor in the family truthfully. Um, so it. I grew up around the sciences and I grew up around seeing science work and also because my father was so great with people and it mattered for him to heal people with sciences. There was, um, an affinity. For that. And what it did. And what it meant. And at the same time, my nephew is an engineer. He does a lot of coding and he actually consulted on creating some of the formulas that you see in the film, um, to make sure that they made mathematical sense as well. So I was looking through the book yesterday being like, oh my, hold on. Yeah. You're like, does this go together? You know, I was, I was. But so for us, you know, I grew up around people that were into the sciences, into engineering, into, you know, math. Math in general. And, um, so I always had a love for it. I don't, did not have that gift, but I felt like. In the space of figuring things out for me, if I could create a formula for it, these are the things that I would create, you know, the square root of possible, you know, the, the sensational and, and all these different things. That's how I would wanna say it, to make it make sense for me and make it be fun for me.

Vanessa Vakharia: 11:04

I love it and it's okay. So you said you, you didn't think you had the gift. And I have to bring it up because my, my whole thing is that there's no such thing as a math person, but we're taught that like, and I just think, like, I went through so much of my life being like, well, I'm just, because I'm like obsessed with Keanu Reeves and I wanna be a famous rock star. Like, that's my like, anytime. No, I'm serious though. Okay. But anytime, so, anytime I wasn't doing well in math, people would be like, oh. You're just not a math person. Like you're not, you know?'cause we do, like you said, we separate the arts from STEM often. And the way you're saying it so beautifully now is the fact that you had to find a way for you and you kind of were like, you know, math isn't about like. You know, I mean, David, it's actually very impressive that you do math in your head and I love it, but it's like that's not,

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 11:50

he's very good at it.

Vanessa Vakharia: 11:52

Very, and that's amazing. And that's that do, that is what being good at math is. But math is also being good at problem solving. It's about thinking creatively. Right? It's about seeing things like journey that no one else sees even, even if they're not like the quote unquote, right. Things that the world sees. Mm-hmm. So like. I, you do have that gift

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 12:10

then? I'm definitely a genius.

Vanessa Vakharia: 12:12

You're a genius. Oh, I, I mean, I don't think that's up for debate. Like you're for sure a genius. You're for sure a genius. And I'm sure like we, I, you know, I'm not gonna get into every, all the crazy things I'm sure happened in the making of this film, which you've been writing since 1996. Like, you were solving problems, you were making equations, you weren't writing, maybe writing them down. That's what I love about this movie is like Journey has this way of seeing things. And I even love her little like trainee friend who's like, loves her.

David E. Talbert: 12:40

Oh, Edison, Edison,

Vanessa Vakharia: 12:42

Edison. It's so cute. But also like, he doesn't see things her way, but he's just as helpful, you know, like mm-hmm. He's doing, he's pulling his weight and he's doing what he needs to do to make the equations work. And that's what I love is I love that every kid's gonna take, come away from this being like, okay, like there is a piece of me that fits in here and I'm not, I don't care if people go into stem, I truly don't, but I care if people feel like they don't belong there and they don't have the choice. And so, absolutely. Lyn, I was gonna ask you, did you ever feel that way?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 13:13

I. I actually didn't feel that way. It was what do I have a love and passion for? Yes. Um, because like I actually was gonna go into optometry and, you know, went to my first year thinking that, you know, I'm gonna follow in my dad's footsteps and I'm gonna be an optometrist like him. But my heart wasn't in it. Yeah. In that particular, so I, I am more of a creative person in my science, you know, is revealed in more creative ways. But you know, like you said, being a, being a problem solver and troubleshooting things, you know, I am a geek when it comes to technology. You wouldn't think so with figuring out this. Airbus, but you know, I'm the, I'm the go-to girl when it comes to, um, customer service with my mom. David's like, what are you doing on the phone? Oh, I'm showing my mom how to update her computer. Or you know, David's like, Lyn, can you please help with this? Or my son's like, can you come put this together? So that is definitely me. I have my own little pink toolkit that I use around the house. There's just all kinds of things that I'm really into as far as fixing things and putting things together and figuring stuff out. So I think that that is definitely a huge tool that people should have and kids should have in general, about finding ways to figure out how to solve and troubleshoot scenarios and situations.

Vanessa Vakharia: 14:39

You sound kind of like an inventor, just gonna say, but it It is true. And the other thing I was just gonna throw in is I was having this talk with someone earlier. It's so weird with math and science. It's almost like people think those are the things that make you smart. So like for example, you'll see someone, like you just said, actually you, I mean, you're so accomplished in the things you've created, right? Like you're so creative. But someone can paint this beautiful painting and no one will look at it and be like, wow. That person's so smart. They'll say, uh, they'll use other words. They're so creative, they're so thoughtful, whatever. But we place this weird value on intelligence and the type of intelligence that goes along with math and science. So that's why when people are like, well, who cares about representation in math and science? If you're bad at math and science or you, you are made to feel at a young age, like you can't do it, which happens to lots of girls and a lot of people of color. It just does. Mm-hmm. When that happens, you internalize that and you carry that with you, and you think. There's this thing on this planet I can't do, and it makes me stupid. So I, I really like that your movie opens the, opens up the entry point to stem to say there is a way for you to feel good at this. You, like Lyn said, it's so well said. If it's not your love or passion, don't do it. But if you want to, you can feel good at it and still choose to say no to it.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 15:57

Absolutely. And also for us in this film, we wanted to honor those inventors in history that weren't recognized. You know, like Edison's last name is Latimer off from Louis Latimer, who also invented the light bulb, but nobody knows that. You know what I'm saying? Right. So there are a lot of, um, you know, vi Vivian Thomas who was part of, um, creating the bypass heart surgery that worked behind the doctor that gets credited for it. You know, there are a lot of us out there. That are very involved and very entrenched in the sciences, in in, in, um, law and all these type of things. Um, um, Louis Laro also was a patent lawyer. It's like you would not know these things. You would never know unless you really delved in, because no one puts'em in the books for us to learn. Absolutely. And it's, you know, it's not fair to a lot regarding representation because this, these kids don't know, wow, there's someone that looks like me that invented the filament. That makes the light bulb light up. You know, how cool is that? Like he invented heart surgery and he never even went to medical school. Like, you know, so these are the things that we wanna put out there, and we have a lot of Easter eggs within the film that honor those before us in history that may have not gotten the credit that they deserve. So, you know, you make a good point just about. Oh, shining a light on representation so that you know, the kids that haven't seen themselves in this type of media feel, I can do that too. Wow.

Vanessa Vakharia: 17:36

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And speaking of first, like, I, I love that. I loved all the Easter eggs. Like I still, I can't wait to watch it like a million times to see more, but I hope like you guys, you know, I think we've, I, all the interviews I've read and listened to are like, this is the first live action movie for Netflix. I think that's cool. But I think what's way cooler is that I truly like think that this is the first movie that presents joy in this magical and wondrous way for a black girl to feel capable of. Like I actually, I have been rocking my brain. I did a poll on my Instagram to ask anyone if they had seen anything like this, if there were any other characters. As you can imagine, the only movie anyone else comes up with is Hidden Figures, which was recent. Mm-hmm. So I wanna ask you like. Yeah, I, I'm sure you're very, very proud of the film, but I kind of see it as a call to action for the rest of Hollywood to pick it up. Like what do you hope to inspire in the rest of this media kind of landscape we're in that has such power over kids? What do you hope to, I mean, what, what is the call to action? Do you hope that they take something from this?

David E. Talbert: 18:45

I think it's normalizing, uh, people of color in worlds that we wouldn't normally see them in. I mean, you know, we have, most of my interviews now are about well representation and all that, but that's because you can't point to one like this. But the, the goal is to normalize it. So then we're just talking about it as being a good film.

Vanessa Vakharia: 19:06

Totally.

David E. Talbert: 19:07

You know, and, and, and of course, you know, before, uh, Jordan Peele did get out. You know, black people didn't last after five minutes in a horror movie. You know, we were paid by the minute so that they would have, they give us a thousand dollars a minute and you're like, I'm gonna make a lot of money. Well, your ass only gonna be alive for, for five minutes in the film. But now, you know, it's normalized. Uh, black Panther normalized. Yes. You can't do any of the Marvel movies without seeing the general, or, you know, God rest his soul. Um, uh, Chadwick Bozeman, but those characters. Little sister. Uh, so that's what I wanted to do with this is to normalize people of color and worlds of wonder and magic and, and science and all that. So it is like, of course we're there. So I'm, I'm hoping that that's what, that's what it does. That's why we threw everything and the kitchen sink into it. Yeah. To make sure. Um, but, but that's what we're most proud of with the film.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 20:05

Yeah. And also like we felt that doing this, we knew we wanted to make something amazing and bring this vision to life, and at the same time, we knew it also was a responsibility on our shoulders. Mm-hmm. Because if we got it wrong, was someone else gonna get another chance? You know, the whiz came out 40 years ago. You know, if you can believe that, and that wasn't an original ip, right? So when you look at, you know, films that have had theatrical releases and gone to, uh, you know, been available to us, it's been a long time. You know, it took us 20 years to get this done. And so, as David said, is it is about normalizing it and it is also about opportunities and opening doors for other people to get this chance without having to wait so long.

Vanessa Vakharia: 20:54

That is so like generous and, and wonderful. I think that is such a wonderful way of looking at it. Um, and also that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself, but the good news, is the good news is you got it right. And like, okay. The other thing is I was like, yeah, you really did. I, I like, was nervous during it because I was like. If they turn this into a musical, I'm gonna like, I think people would lose their minds. Like, I can't imagine being like I was, I'm not kidding. Like I was hysterically like bawling. Like I was like, oh my God. Like I was like, imagine a theater full of people watching this. Like, is this gonna be a musical? Are you allowed to tell me, is this, stop?

David E. Talbert: 21:31

We're working on a Broadway musical for this, which is what it was attended to originally be, be, but yeah. Right. We're taken to the stage.

Vanessa Vakharia: 21:40

I like, I need a moment of silence on stage. Yeah. I'm like, literally, I'm, I'm speechless because I can't even, like, I feel like it is gonna be the most cathartic, like empowering experience. Like I can't even, like I wish I could be cast in this musical. I have no spill would be useful. Like literally at all. Oh my God. Okay. We were talking about representation, and I have to tell you this story because it's crazy. I was, so yesterday I'm interviewing this woman named Esther Brunat. She's like a math influencer, okay, from the states. So she's like a black math influencer and I'm like, have you seen Jingle Jangle? She loses her mind. She's like five times. Then she pulls out a video of her niece, no joke, who's at the window in the like fog do saying I'm Journey and doing all the magical. So first of all it was like, are you like, are you freaking out? Ah, okay. But also I'm sending you the video because I already asked her. I was like, listen, please, absolutely, please send it. Yes, I'll, I'll, I'll, I was like, low key. I might be actually speaking to these people. And she was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I don't wanna hype it up yet, but yes, she showed me the video. You're literally gonna freak out. But the thing is, she's not the only one like this mu, you know, like you're having such a crazy impact and it's like to think like these are young girls who are going to grow up with a completely different perception of themselves and their abilities, thanks to your Christmas movie.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 23:05

Oh my God,

David E. Talbert: 23:06

yeah. It really is. Um, uh, when you grow, when I start to write something, I write to entertain myself. Uh, and then you put it out in the world and you hope people love it as much as, as you love the love you put into it. But this one has really been overwhelming. Um, the, the, the, the core that has been struck with this has really been overwhelming. People are. Really moved by the film in so many different ways. And, um, I'm just, I'm just very thankful to be Lyn and I to, you know, um, be given this gift that we can give to the world. And, uh, it's still, it's very overwhelming. I, you know, and, but I'm very appreciative and enjoying the ride. This is 30 years, it'll be in the business for me. So it's, it is very special, very special,

Vanessa Vakharia: 23:53

very special. Oh, well, I'm, I mean, I'm just, this is so amazing. I wanna make sure we talk about the books because last night my bedtime story was the square root of possible. So can we, I actually, and, and again, like I put it on my gift list, I've been telling everyone Yes. Oh my God. Oh my God. Show it up. So cute. Tell us, tell us about the books. Like what's the vibe? What do we need to know? So

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 24:18

I, I mean, I want the Jingle Jangle Universe to be a part of, you know, our world forever and a part of holidays and really everything. So in my mind, um, you have to have those ancillary things to keep pushing the message. So I love that song, square Root Possible, and that song got me through shooting this movie. I'm in my car singing it, I'm playing it all the time. I know how this movie touched the little girl in me. So as that little girl, I knew that I would want to see something added to that. So that's why I did square root of possible picture books. So for those really little ones, and then, which is just a sweet little story about how, you know, she helps Veronica bring back his. His possible. Mm-hmm. And I put the words of the song in the back so that they could sing along as well to the song. So anyone that gets a book, they get the download of the song for free if they just upload their receipt. And then the middle grade book was for that 10 and up. Um, that delves into the story a little bit more. Um, you know, for my son, my son's seven, but he's reading this, both of them actually. And um, I had to have just a full circle moment. I had Felicia Rashad do the audio of the middle grade book, which is Jingle Jangle, the events. The invention of Veronica's jangle, say that 10 times. Then jingle jangle the invention of Veronica's jangle. Um, so that, that's really what it's about. I wanna continue to, to support little girls and boys in this way, in a positive way and, and encourage them to, you know, use their imagination and. Use stem and push on the things that they wanna do, and that they know in their minds and in their hearts that anything is possible.

Vanessa Vakharia: 26:17

Mm-hmm. I feel like this is gonna be so useful. Like educational resources kind of suck. Like there isn't stuff like this, right? Mm-hmm. It's either like a textbook or it's like. Nothing. So I think it's gonna be really cool to see what you guys come up with. Like, I, I'm kind of envisioning since I'm here to pitch my idea, um, like a, where is Waldo type book, but like, for, for all the things you were talking about, like all the little Easter eggs and fi, like wheres during whatever, who cares? We can cut this outta the podcast, but I just thought it That's right. Um, oh, the other thing I was gonna say quickly, me and David are in a band, like a rock band, and I'm putting the hard sell on us, covering square root of possible. Woo. Like a mock version. Love it. Oh, you better send that. We have to do it. And I play key chart so we could have like a key chart in it. David, you have to say, oh wow.

David E. Talbert: 27:05

I love it.

David Kochberg: 27:06

Like putting me on the spot.

Vanessa Vakharia: 27:08

I guess that's a yes. Okay, final two questions. What would you change if you could change one thing about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?

David E. Talbert: 27:19

For me, it would be to make it, uh, fun.

Vanessa Vakharia: 27:24

Yeah.

David E. Talbert: 27:25

And, and that was the kind of the idea of, and make it, make it not seem like, um. Yeah, like, uh, you know, like you had to be a rocket scientist, you know, to do it. Um, and so that's what I, that's why I started to make it fun and do formulas in my head and do things, and then I would figure out my own way of solving, um, equations in my head and just made it simple for me and easy. And now it's, it's fun, but I think, yeah, if it, it didn't be like, you know, you have to do blah, blah, blah. So I think I, I would change that. I would make it fun.

Vanessa Vakharia: 28:02

Well, and I love it. I, yeah, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 28:05

Oh no, I was saying, yeah, same here. But I would do,'cause I remember music, you know I love the music. I don't know if you remember that Two plus two is four. Four plus FOUR is eight. Eight plus eight is 16 and 16 and 16 are 32. There were all these like fun little songs that would be done. You remember the count on Sesame Street? Yes. I just love David's face. Three. He's like, no, I don't remember that. David's like, I'm out. Sorry. It was another era. Um, but I, I,

David E. Talbert: 28:36

mine was schoolhouse rock.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 28:37

Yeah. I, I had schoolhouse rock too.

David E. Talbert: 28:38

Yeah. That was my era. 3 6, 9, 12, 15, 18. 21 24, 27. 30. 30. Yeah. Man. And a woman had a little baby. Yes. All that stuff. Yes. Yeah. Schoolhouse rock was it? Was was it for me?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 28:51

Yeah. So I miss stuff like that because it's, it's all about making it fun. And then you don't even realize it hits you when you're at the grocery store and you're like, you know, 16 to 16 or 32, you know, you're like, oh, 32, oh, lemme here. You know? So I, I think. Definitely making it more fun, adding these elements, including something like movies like this in the curriculum to get the kids excited about, oh, maybe I do want to be an inventor or a mathematician, or, you know, um, do formulas in an amazing way and, and add some art to it, you know, because I think you definitely get more, more kids excited about it. And there's so many. You know, resources out there now to help with that. Like these box kits that they send out. Wow. And, you know, STEM kits and, you know, getting people involved, like you doing podcasts and, and all of that. I just feel like we need to group together a little bit more as on how to present it so that kids are excited about it.

Vanessa Vakharia: 29:54

I love it. And honestly like I think like time's over for this is gonna be bad. I shouldn't say it, I'm saying it anyway. I think time's over for like the school boards to be ruling it. Like I'm kind of like, you know what? You had your chance and you have failed. So now it's up to actually people like influencers, people in the media, people who are creative. It's up to us to solve the problem now. And the truth is like when I was doing my masters. The, the research is clear. Like the biggest influence on a kid's life is not what happens in the classroom, it's on what, it's what happens outside of the classroom. So the more we can, yeah. And us taking charge of that and saying, no, you can't just keep making movies about white men doing math. Like we're here to change it. The whole, you can't be what you can't see. Like you can see it now. Right. And as that happens. I think that stuff will change, and that idea of bringing, bringing creativity into the classroom. You're right. And I think it's not only in like, oh, we're painting, but in like, appreciating, getting the wrong answer, appreciating the creativity required to solve a problem. So like, you're, you're entirely right. And you're, you guys are, you're up there, you're up doing mm-hmm. You know, you're, you're doing it. You're doing it. All right. Last que thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you. Last question is, what would you say to someone who says, well, I'm just not a math person.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 31:08

Well now, I mean now that you've beat it into my head, I'm gonna say everyone's a math person. You know, can you solve a problem? You know, can you, can you screw in a screw in a light bulb? You're a math person. Yes, yes.

David E. Talbert: 31:24

But we work out formulas in every, every moment in our life. We're working out formulas. You know, even growing up in the, in the church, uh, in the, in a church for me, there was a scripture. One of my favorites, favorite scriptures of faith without works is dead. And, and so then that's an equation. Faith plus works. So it is these things added equal. This, and, and so it, it's, it's all of, so I, I, I look at the formulas, spiritual formulas that help me get through life, but Wow. But I think we're always working out formulas. I think we're all math people. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia: 32:03

I am like, I feel like I'm gonna cry and I have blue eyeliner on, so like, I just need, like, yeah. Yeah. Well,

David E. Talbert: 32:09

thank you. This, this whole thing. You know, Lyn's uh, nephew, um, helped with the formulas. Uh, Jalan who is a, what is his gig?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert: 32:19

He's an engineer for Intel.

David E. Talbert: 32:21

He, he is an engineer. And then we, and then we brought in an astrophysicist mm-hmm. Uh, in London that helped. So, because, because we wanted actual formulas. Yeah. It talked about momentum and talked about, um, uh, uh, propelling yourself through, so all these things were about how do you keep things moving? And so we, we took a lot of, um. Uh, time with those, but, but I'm glad they struck a chord with you. I'm glad they struck a chord with, um, young girls and boys everywhere. And, uh, again, thankful for the opportunity to share this with the world. Thanks for having us.

Vanessa Vakharia: 32:57

Thank you so, so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Everyone, literally stop what you're doing right now. Go to Netflix, put on Jingle Jangle the square root Yes. Of impossible. Impossible. It

David E. Talbert: 33:09

is possible

Vanessa Vakharia: 33:10

to you.

David E. Talbert: 33:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia: 33:13

Like you.