Kylie Fraser - intro

Vanessa Vakharia 0:04

Hi, it's me, Vanessa, and welcome to Math Therapy. Okay, so earlier this month I keynoted the Mighty Peace Teachers Convention in Grand Prairie, Alberta, which was so special because guys, it was actually my first time back there since 2020, and what's even crazier is back in 2020, it was the first time I had ever presented at a teacher's convention in my life. And that happens to be when I met today's guest, Kylie Fraser, a math teacher with math trauma, who ended up in one of my sessions back in 2020, and who I've stayed in touch with for the past six years. We finally reunited IRL and we were like, oh my God, you know what we should do? We should totally record a podcast like 30 minutes before I do my keynote so that's what we did. I sat down with Kylie in her very own classroom, which was so cool. And even though Kylie doesn't even teach math anymore, she has still made it her mission to make sure that the math culture at her school is immaculate. She's also made it her mission to make sure that the math culture in her household is immaculate for her daughter. If you work at a school in any capacity, I'm so excited for you to hear Kylie's tips on how to make sure that math anxiety does not dominate those hallways. And even if you're not in education, Kylie shares practical tips you can use right now to make sure that those around you aren't reinforcing negative stereotypes about math. Make sure you share this episode with as many people as you can because it truly takes a village to change the bad rep that math has developed. But we can all be the change we wish to see. Also, before we get into the convo, I've got exciting news, Math Therapy now has its own Facebook group, a community of amazing people just like you, sharing tips, advice, and magical Math Therapy moments. Two amazing teachers from Michigan, Karen and Ryan started it. And all you have to do to join is head to Facebook, type Math Therapy in your search bar, and request to join. We are already at a hundred people as of the recording of this podcast episode, and we are growing every day, so please join in. Okay, now for what you actually came here for, my interview with Kylie. Okay. I am here with Kylie. We are at Mighty Peace Teachers Convention in Grand Prairie. And the way we know each other is six years ago I presented here.

Kylie Fraser 2:19

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 2:19

And we had a rom-com moment.

Kylie Fraser 2:22

Yeah,

Vanessa Vakharia 2:22

it was, can you, I want you to tell the story of how you remember.

Kylie Fraser 2:24

It was like, I saw your presentation

Vanessa Vakharia 2:27

by accident

Kylie Fraser 2:28

listed and I thought, math, trauma like that sounds like me. So then I, on a whim, went to your presentation and as you spoke, I was just like, this girl is me. Like I can connect to everything you're saying. It was like crazy. And my husband was sitting next to me and he was just like, you guys are the same, and like everything she stands for is exactly like what you have, you need. And I was like, absolutely. And then I told you my story about how I have math trauma. I'm currently teaching math. And,

Vanessa Vakharia 2:56

but tell, tell everyone else.

Kylie Fraser 2:58

And yeah, so it was

Vanessa Vakharia 2:59

like, at the time what were you teaching?

Kylie Fraser 3:00

I was teaching grade nine, math and science. And yeah, I had like, I was so nervous because I had my own math, trauma and. So I had to really like check myself and be like, you are a teacher. You are capable. You have all the tools you need. You can do this, but your brain really tricks you into thinking that you can't do it because of years of like neglect to yourself. And so yeah, I, I taught grade nine math, and ever since I've meeting Vanessa, I've just changed the way that I speak about math. And now that I'm not so much in the math world, in my building, I do like to check other people, uh, and make sure that they know to use, proper math language and to not speak about being a math person. Um, so I've taken your practices.

Vanessa Vakharia 3:48

Ok

Kylie Fraser 3:48

into my religion room.

The origins of math trauma

Vanessa Vakharia 3:50

Here's the funniest thing about this, is I love that you are so, are you a trained doctor Because you went full promo mode, you, she turned to the camera, okay, for those listening, she turned to the camera and started speaking about me in third person. I use Vanessa's, that was amazing. I did not pay her to do that. Okay, so I wanna go back a bit. First of all, that was very well articulated. Thank you. Um, we're actually sitting here together'cause I'm about to do a keynote and Kylie generously offered to jump on the pod before we did it. Yeah. Which is of the perfect hype up for me. Can you, do you feel comfortable sharing like what you feel your experience was with math that led to math trauma? Like were there specific things?

Kylie Fraser 4:24

Yeah, like in school, the teachers would be like, oh, you're not smart enough to go into like the regular math class in high school. Like I said, yeah, in like grade nine, you like start streaming yourself. And they were like, you're gonna go into like the low math. And I was like, but I feel like I'm not. Slow math. I felt like I wasn't, and then I've like, I'm being quite honest, I've blocked a lot of that out from my memory, which is awful. But like I don't have a ton of memories from high school about math because it is so like, yeah, your brain protects you and like gets rid of it. But yeah, they basically said that I like couldn't do that math. And so I convinced myself that I wasn't a math person. Um, but I didn't have anyone who like said, actually girl, you're crazy, you're not. Like, that's not a thing. Um, I just kind of believed it all the way through. And then I got to university and I took stats, math, and I failed it twice. And I've learned, it's just because I didn't push myself enough. Like I definitely could have done better in all of the things, but I didn't push myself and I just let myself fail it. So, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:31

Can I ask like, that's, it's interesting because like I hear you say that and I'm like, oh, like I don't want you to like,'cause I feel so self blamey, to be like, I didn't push myself. Yeah. And I wonder if, and tell me if I'm incorrect, do you feel like you didn't push yourself because you didn't believe you could do more or because there was no one supporting you? Like

Kylie Fraser 5:49

Both totally. Okay. So like I do have the like. Family side of trauma too, where I don't, I didn't have a support person in my life, so that contributes to it. Like I didn't have a supportive family being like, you can do whatever you wanna do. But also that contributed to me not having it in my own self, just to be like, you can do it. So there was a twofold there. Just,

Vanessa Vakharia 6:10

Yeah. And honestly, I think that's so important to note This idea of like even when we look at our students and we're like, they're not pushing themselves often the voice in their head is the voice of those around them. That's really important to know that like we have to have that compassion of being like our students, they're kids. Right? And actually even as adults, like the voices that tell us whether or not to push ourselves often come from years of. What people have told us. Yeah. So like, yes. Now you can reflect on that. Yeah. But, okay, so what I also wanna go back to, first of all, thanks for sharing that. And like, I'm so sorry. That just sucks. Yeah. But look at you now, right? Yeah. So six years ago you come to my session. Yay. I'm so glad you were there. Um, and I think you, I think you spoke in front of the whole room When you shared this, it was like such a moment we

Kylie Fraser 6:52

had. Yeah. And that was the first time I ever like openly admitted. That like I had math, trauma or that I had anxiety about teaching math. I was very like, that was my like aha moment where I'm like, oh yeah, I am. And I do, and I say, I said the things out loud for the first time, which was like liberating and validating.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:10

Wow. My God, you're making me feel so good. But you know what, I'm also thinking, honestly, this is like kind of a tangent. We say a lot about one and done pd, like, we're like, Oh, you can't impact someone if it just happens really fast. Absolutely. The words you say are impactful.

Kylie Fraser 7:25

Absolutely.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:25

So like, yes, it's

Kylie Fraser 7:26

like, and you never know who's listening.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:28

You never know who's listening. Yeah. I think it's important for teachers to know that too. Like the words you say. Like you asking a student About their negative experience with math can open something up in them. So,

Why language matters

Kylie Fraser 7:37

yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:38

So at the time you were teaching math and you started changing your language, and you said something about how not only did you change your own language, but you, and this is so Kylie by the way, we've kept in touch over Instagram, so we haven't seen each other in like years, but she is the coolest, and I love that you're like, and now I check, you know, you started checking other people. What kind of language things did you notice that you or others were saying, and what was your correction?

Kylie Fraser 8:00

Oh my gosh. Okay. So there's two things I really wanna talk about. There's the things in my building, and then there's the things that I see that are just like in our everyday life.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:08

Love it. Let's go.

Kylie Fraser 8:08

The first is that in our building, and like in any school, there are people who are like, oh, I'm not a math person. You know, dah, dah, dah, dah. Or. The anxiety that you see. So maybe they're not saying it out loud, but their body language says that they are like overwhelmed that they don't believe in themselves. And I, that's what I'm seeing, like especially in grade 11, is just absolute meltdowns of students and like they become a different person in the bathroom.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:34

Okay. So I want you to, so just for everyone to know, Kylie is not teaching math right now-Ish.

Kylie Fraser 8:40

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:40

Like you are teaching reli.

Kylie Fraser 8:41

I'm co-teaching a math so I full-time religion, but two weeks ago, I a got asked to co-teach a math 20 dash two class. Now past Kylie would've been like, no, absolutely not. And there were several people who were like, absolutely not. I'm not doing that. But I instantly started Googling as they were asking me, okay, you know, I've never done it before. I've never actually taught high school side of math. But if I can learn it, I can teach it. Mm. And so I instantly started googling the curriculum. Like what's in 20 dash two math.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:09

And what's 20? What grade is that?

Kylie Fraser 9:10

It's grade 11. Okay. And it would be like the second tier of, of math.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:14

Okay.

Kylie Fraser 9:14

Um, and so yeah, so I am currently in there, um, helping the teacher out. And so I initially was like, I can't do this. And then I was like, yes, you can. So I actively listen and I am learning as I go and I am providing not only the teaching for the students, but also like the therapy side of it, because they are completely different students.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:36

Okay. Tell us about it.

Kylie Fraser 9:36

So like, I

Vanessa Vakharia 9:38

and you see them early.

Kylie Fraser 9:39

Yeah. So I teach them religion and my room is very zen and quiet and like we, it's just a time of reflection and they, and they get what they need in here. If they need to study, they study. If they need to learn, they learn. I meet them where they're at in the day, but. Seeing those same students in the math room was like life changing for me. They, their complete demeanor changes. They're, they're red in the face, they're sweating profusely, they're snapping at each other, like their brain chemistry changes. Their cortisol levels are going up, and it's all over. A math problem. And they are telling themselves they can't do it. And they've convinced themselves that they are not good enough and then they spiral. Well, I need to get into criminology and, and university. I need to do this. I need to do that. And I'm like, girl, like, she's like, I need a sociology degree. I'm like, I have a sociology degree. I have that. And I didn't do the math. Like I, I struggled with the math and I, and I failed stats twice in university and I still came out with a sociology degree. Even saying that they still didn't believe me, like it's going to take a lot of convincing that they can do it. But having someone in there just to like acknowledge their fears and understand where they're coming from, I think is huge. And just like being their safe space and listening to them is going to make a huge difference in the end. But like you can see it, they are just. It is a flip. A flip of a switch.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:09

A flip of a switch. What do you think is different about like a religion class and a math class that makes that happen's is crazy? Or is it, is it the class or like, what is it?

Kylie Fraser 11:16

It's so bizarre. Like I, like, I don't know what it is, but I think that they hold math to a high, well, I mean, I don't think, I know they hold math to a higher standard, and so they know that they have to receive these certain grades to get onto a certain class, to be able to go to a certain thing, and so. It's not, and they're very concerned about the number. Which is scary.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:37

Like the grade.

Kylie Fraser 11:38

Yeah. Yeah. So like, it's, yeah. It's, it's just a reworking of the entire framework and just. Math is scary for them.

Healing through shared stories

Vanessa Vakharia 11:45

Yeah. And you, something you said earlier, I want to touch on when you were like, I tell them about my own exp experience. That is one of the most helpful things, right? Is to be like, listen, like I failed math, like I'm fine. Yeah. Like that, the modeling of it. Yeah. And you said they still don't believe me. No. Tell me more about that. Like in what sense?

Kylie Fraser 12:02

So they, I say like, I have that degree. That's what you're going to school for if that's your, if that's your goal. And it's like, yeah, but like I'm different. Or it's like, but I can't, so. They just instantly shoot it down as like, they're not, it's not possible for them to, to do it. So it's kind of sad to see them have that like negative self-talk.

Vanessa Vakharia 12:23

What do you think, like,'cause obviously you are making such an impact, right? By, you're just such a, you're such a vibe and you are sharing your real experience. What do you feel actually makes that change? Do you feel like it's like repetitive over time of you telling that story? Like at what point do they start to deescalate a bit?

Kylie Fraser 12:40

Absolutely. I think it's like exactly like your analogy yesterday with the salt water. Like it's just overfilling their cup with like clean, fresh ideas and like positive affirmations. But it starts so early. So this is where I've seen it and I like was enraged. My daughter had a book, she brought it over, we were reading it. We were three pages into this unicorn book.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:02

LA unicorn book. Girl. How old is she?

Kylie Fraser 13:04

Six. Okay. Okay. Very impressionable. At six years old.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:08

Six is the age where things start to turn

Kylie Fraser 13:10

Three pages into the book, the unicorn says, I'm never, I've never been a math unicorn.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:15

Stop.

Kylie Fraser 13:16

And I shut the book and got rid of the book because like, what are we doing? Like it was in a kid's unicorn book. Innocent. And, and that is the language that we're perpetuating. It drives me crazy.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:34

What book is this?

Kylie Fraser 13:34

I'm gonna take a picture of it. We need to find it. I totally like, I was so mad I couldn't even take a picture of it and be like, look, Vanessa. Yeah. Like you instantly came to my mind like. This cannot be happening. And I yelled to my husband, like this book just talked about being a math unicorn. And I got, and I just like put it away. I was like, we're not reading this anymore. But like, if it's in that,

Vanessa Vakharia 13:54

if it's in that

Kylie Fraser 13:54

context, it's everywhere. It's on TikTok, it's on Instagram, it's on everything. And they are seeing that and they're letting girl math like, oh, it's girl math. Like that was a huge thing for a while. Socials are also perpetuating that. And that's what they're looking at 90% of their day, so

Vanessa Vakharia 14:10

a hundred percent. Okay. So tell me, oh my God. I'm like, how did this start? But we were talking about the language you see at school and outside. Did you rant about everything you wanted to rant about or are there more like, tell us more things?

Kylie Fraser 14:19

Well, I, I also like, just because I'm not in a math class now, I still, whenever, like someone I work with says. Something negative about math, I instantly check them. And I think that's the most important thing is you don't have to be a math person to take your sessions. I think anybody should be taking your sessions because it's for everybody to change their perspective on it. Just because you don't teach math does not mean you don't hear people talking about math in a negative way, and it's your job as an educator. Just shut that down.

Vanessa Vakharia 14:47

Oh.

Kylie Fraser 14:47

Just like you wouldn't let bullying happen or you wouldn't let anything else happen, like you shouldn't be letting. The perpetuation of negative self-talk around a subject happen.

Vanessa Vakharia 14:56

I just wanna like pause of how epic that is. Well, and like I always say, we're not all teachers of math, but we're all teachers of math attitudes. Yeah. And like I think this is really cool that you are not, you're not, you're teaching religion right now. And it's still in your mind to be like, I love how you just compared it to bullying.

Kylie Fraser 15:12

It's the same thing.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:13

It, it really kind of, in a way is, especially because so much of the math language we see at schools is pejorative. It might be like calling someone a nerd or like making fun of them for being smart or like being on the robotics team or like this idea like fine, it's not, it might not always be direct bullying, but treating it the same way of being like, oh, this language is harmful.

Kylie Fraser 15:33

It is. Yeah. And coming from a teacher especially is even more harmful. Oh. So like, do not be a professional. And use that language about a subject at all.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:41

Yeah, I definitely have English teacher friends who are like will say in front of their students. Yeah. Like, oh, like I don't, you know, calculating your grade. Double check.'cause I'm not a math person. Exactly. And I'm like, oh my God. So tell me what kinds, I think this is so great. How can we check people, as you put it, what things can we say?

Kylie Fraser 15:57

Oh, it's like if you're in the staff room and you hear someone talking about math in a certain way, like in any context it could be them talking about their taxes they have to do, or they're gonna get someone else to do this because they're not good at at calculating the thing. Like just boosting up their confidence too and telling them like, you are capable of doing that. You can learn anything and do anything if you want to. And so. Yeah, just if it's negative self talk about themselves, like checking them and being like, no, girl, you're good. You got this. And like you can do it. And then if they're talking about a student or if they're using that language around a student, I just call them out on it. Like, you should not be saying that around a student, or you should not be talking about math that way as, uh, insert whatever subject you teach.

Vanessa Vakharia 16:41

How, what kind of reactions have you gotten?

Kylie Fraser 16:43

People are like, yeah, oh yeah, you're right. Like they, they do understand that it is. Uh, you know, it's negative talk and I think they are, people are more aware of it now that math is like,

Vanessa Vakharia 16:54

you're changing the culture,

Kylie Fraser 16:55

but like, you do have to just not worry about what other people think and just say the thing.

Vanessa Vakharia 16:59

Yeah. Whenever, you know, you kind of, confront someone and suggest that maybe they should consider a different approach, they might get a bit defensive.

Kylie Fraser 17:07

Oh, absolutely.

Vanessa Vakharia 17:08

That's okay. Doesn't mean you should say, hundred percent, yeah, and even if they don't agree in the moment, they're gonna think about it. Yeah. But if you never say anything. Exactly. Just like, Um, and I love that you're transforming that school of culture and for anyone who's listening, who is not a math educator, even if you're just not an educator at all. These are things we can watch out for and address like on the street. I mean, I hear people say this kind of stuff all the time.

Kylie Fraser 17:28

It's everywhere.

How to talk about math trauma

Vanessa Vakharia 17:29

It's everywhere like it, so it's like any opportunity you can get. So give us a few things we can say. Like somebody makes a comment like being like, Ugh, I'm just not a math person. Or like, oh, there's like too much math in this. Like I was never naturally good at this. Or they say one of those things. After you like calm down from being like, oh my God, it's happening. Yeah. What are a few, um, approaches we can take?

Kylie Fraser 17:50

Uh, well, I've always used like your approach of like, have you had a bad experience with math before?

Vanessa Vakharia 17:56

Okay.

Kylie Fraser 17:56

And just prying into like what has given you this like notion that you can't do it. Or I go to, like, has someone told you you're not good at math? Or I say like, well, don't you like you use this all the time, and I'll find an example in their life, like off the bat, that they can use. So people are like, oh, I'm never gonna use this math again. I'm like, well, don't you like, don't you build houses for a living?

Vanessa Vakharia 18:19

Right.

Kylie Fraser 18:19

Or like, don't you work. In a store like you use math all the time. I just don't think that people realize that they're using it. Mm. So I connect it back to their, their jobs as much as I can. Um, but yeah, you have to like self validate and just like ask them where they're coming from with that. Yeah. Nine times outta 10, it's something that someone said to them, um, and just prying because they will likely open up to you about what happened, but also. Like relating it back to their real life. Like you, you do this all the time, you just don't realize it.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:52

Mm-hmm. I love this and I, I mean, I love the approach of asking, right? And seeing where they're coming from before you then like figure out what to say next. Yeah. And again, often just asking allows them to be like, oh yeah. Like, I guess it's weird that I say that, or like,

Kylie Fraser 19:06

You're providing the space for them to like open up about it. Because no one's probably ever asked them.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:11

Well, and that's the thing nobody's probably ever asked them. Like, if you guys are listening right now, you're listening to this podcast. This is probably like a, nor maybe not, but it's probably like a normal conversation or it's like a normalized conversation and you're asking people that, and you're talking about it, but on the whole, this is not happening, right. This is like a very like niche space. It's like the Math Therapy podcast, it's,

Kylie Fraser 19:30

yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:31

So it's like to even just ask, like, like you said in, in my session was the first time you'd been asked and responded. That can open things up and never to underestimate the impact that can make.

Kylie Fraser 19:40

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:40

You are so inspiring. I wanna keep talking to you, but I do need, we need to go,

Kylie Fraser 19:44

I mean, you have like 500 people to talk to now.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:46

Well, and also this man is trying to get into this room for a session. Um, is there anything like you wanna say that I'm not No.

Kylie Fraser 19:52

Like you have literally transformed my life. Oh my God. So, and like it's just keep doing what you're doing and I think you don't understand who you're touching with all these sessions that you do. I know that you're all over the place, but there's always gonna be some. One from each one of those places. Here's gonna take something from you

Q1

Vanessa Vakharia 20:07

That is so nice, Kylie, but like, you are the one who I wanna thank. Right? Like all these people, you're checking, all these comments you're making being a zen place for students, like giving them that space like that makes a difference. And you're probably just so used to it. Yeah, I But think about it, you're, but yeah, but you need to know that like you're changing lives every day. I should ask you the two questions I ask everyone before we go.

Kylie Fraser 20:29

Okay.

Vanessa Vakharia 20:30

The first one is, if you could change one thing about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?

Kylie Fraser 20:35

I would make it exactly like what you showed us yesterday, where we like make it more relatable and fun to start and then sneak it in.'Cause I think we just jump right into the, the nitty gritty of math problems instead of like. Hey, you guys do this already and you've already done this. Like, tell me more about this. And so we don't make it relatable to kids at all. And, and I think we need to make it very relatable in this day and age. Kids don't want, don't wanna do anything. That's not their vibe. And if it's not something that they can see themselves doing, they're checked out, so

Vanessa Vakharia 21:12

They're checked out. Yeah. There's so many other options for them.

Kylie Fraser 21:14

Exactly.

Q2

Vanessa Vakharia 21:15

Love it. And finally, I mean, this is funny to ask you now, but I, I do have to ask. If someone's listening to this whole thing and they're like, Ugh, Kylie was awesome, but like, no, for real, I'm just not a math person. What would you say?

Kylie Fraser 21:26

Yeah, you're a math person. Everybody's a math person. Like literally, I think that you just need to like check yourself and see where you're using. Your math, there are so many things you do in your day that you just don't realize you're using your, your tools. You already have them innately in you. And just because someone doesn't give you an A plus on it doesn't mean you're not doing

Vanessa Vakharia 21:47

it. Mm. And this is the thing too, I'm gonna add on to that to be like, most often when we say we're not doing. It's because we, we don't count the math we're doing as valuable. Yeah. Because it was never graded.

Kylie Fraser 21:59

Exactly.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:00

But it is, that's just bullshit.

Kylie Fraser 22:01

Yeah. You are being your, you are living your life.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:04

You're living your,

Kylie Fraser 22:05

you're adulting with math.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:07

Okay. Thank you so much. I'm gonna, you know what, I'm gonna do the, I never do this, but I'm just gonna do the outro right now. Okay. Because we're here. So we're gonna do the outro together. If you have been listening, which you have been, otherwise you wouldn't be here. Yeah. Thank you so much. This is actually very, very special. I never, I love this so much. I love that you just agreed to do this. Yeah. I love that. We met. Six years ago in Grand Prairie,

Kylie Fraser 22:24

and it's like nothing ever changed.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:26

I know, I know. I love it so much. We, I've learned so much from you over the past six years. Like we've been messaging each other, like, Kylie updates me. It's so great.

Kylie Fraser 22:34

I had a full ass baby. Between like this.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:37

I did not

Kylie Fraser 22:38

even, yeah, like right. Six years.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:39

She's six

Kylie Fraser 22:40

pregnant. Yeah. I was pregnant with her when, and now I'm like reading her stories about math.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:44

Oh my God. What a full circle. This circle of life. Literally. Yeah. Okay. You guys can text the podcast. Me and Kylie wanna know what you think so you can hit the link in the show notes. Text the podcast. Remember, we cannot see your name or your contact info. So if you want us to respond, you've gotta provide that. you can DM me at Instagram at the Math Guru. You can tag me and I'm gonna, I'll share it with Kylie. You can email me vanessa@themathgu.ca. This is, so, should we give them like a piece of homework? How about it's just like to check themselves?

Kylie Fraser 23:12

Show me your math. Show me your math.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:14

Show me your math.

Kylie Fraser 23:15

Using your math every day.

Outtake - classroom interruption

Vanessa Vakharia 23:17

Okay. There it is. So texts dm, must do something. Show us your math. This was so fun. Okay, we're gonna go to my session now. Okay. Bye. Hi.

Kylie Fraser 23:30

No, not right now. Probably at nine o'clock. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:33

We're just recording a podcast. Don't, don't edit this out. David. This is real, the real life in the school.

Kylie Fraser 23:40

Is there a session in here? Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:42

Yeah. We are having a session.

Kylie Fraser 23:43

Busy. You're not, you're not invited.