Vanessa's most vulnerable episode yet

Vanessa Vakharia 0:03

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode, question mark of Math Therapy. I am not sure what's about to happen here. All I know is that I'm behind the mic because David told me he was sick of listening to me complain, and if I was going to be stressed and talk to him about it, I might as well be productive and turn it into an episode. So here we are. And, um, I don't know. I guess we're just gonna see what happens. I'm sitting here with my therapy calculator, AKA, my stuffy from TI Calculators, and I am here because, what can I say? I am always. Saying blah, blah, blah, this anxiety, that trauma, blah. We can fix things mindset, la, la, la, la, la. There's so many solutions to so many problems. But the truth is, I just like everyone else, have my own anxieties. Yes, about math, but about life in general. And the truth is that math anxiety is just another form of anxiety. And anxiety in general is, I always say this, it is about the fear of some future catastrophic event and the fear that you're not gonna be able to handle it. And I feel like right now I am very consumed with my own anxieties and I. I'm here to outer process them because actually I have a legitimate therapy appointment in four and a half hours. And I was supposed to do all this shit for my therapist last week that I did not do, and now I feel like she's gonna get mad at me, which like she's not gonna do 'cause I'm paying her. And like, therapists don't actually get mad at you, but I'm like, maybe if I'm accountable to someone, AKA U, the listener, I'll actually do the things I was supposed to do to feel less anxious last week so that I feel less anxious by the time my appointment rolls around in four and a half hours. So,

Anatomy of a panic spiral

Vanessa Vakharia 1:39

without further ado. David's face right now. This was your idea. Okay. I am stressed. Okay, I'm stressed because this, I feel this all started with a mathematical reason actually, which is that it is tax time and every tax season I get stressed. Why do I get stressed? I get stressed because I feel like I can't fucking understand taxes. Like here I am. I, I like math, I understand mathematical operations. Yet the entire tax system is so convoluted and complicated that I can't understand it, and when I can't understand it, I feel like I'm. Out of control because this is about money. It's about my money, and then all of a sudden you're like, I don't know what's happening right now. Am I doing something wrong? Is someone gonna come after me? I don't understand what these numbers mean. I don't understand what the rules are. I don't understand like where I'm supposed to input this, that, and the other thing. I don't know. I'm not detail oriented, so I'm looking at the reports and I'm like, this could be my income. I'm not sure, is it. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't understand what's going on, and it triggers my old math anxiety because I'm back to being that kid who was like, I don't know, I, if this makes sense. Like I'm plugging numbers into the formula and I don't understand if it makes sense. Actually, maybe this is an argument against the algorithm. I actually thought I was gonna get on here and talk about how I love the algorithm because it actually brings me so much peace to plug shit in and get an answer and be able to check it off and just be done. Just be finished to not have to think for fucking once. I know we love thinking, I get that. We love thinking, but like wouldn't it be nice to not have to think for a second? But now that I'm saying this, I'm like, maybe this is the problem because I am plugging shit into FreshBooks and it's pumping out some number and I don't understand what it's. Doing, actually, maybe that's the problem with taxes in general. I don't actually understand what's happening. Maybe I do need to think. Maybe that, uh, okay. Anyway, anyways, the point is that like, so now I'm back to this whole thing of being like, great, I don't know what's happening. I don't know if any of these numbers are correct. I've gotta pay a bunch of money. Is that right? I don't know. Am I not even paying the right amount? Is someone gonna come after me? Is the IRS coming after me? I know I live in Canada, but still the IRS sounds scarier than the CRA, but I'd be scared if either of these people came after me because I don't even feel like I have, I wouldn't be able to argue because I don't know what they'd ask me, and I don't know what I did. So I wouldn't be able to confidently be like, Nope, like here's my thought process. Like if they were like, explain your thinking, I'd be like, bro, like I can't. I can't actually. I just plug shit in. And I guess that's what teachers don't want to hear. So this episode is, you know, when I started this episode, I was like, how is this possibly gonna tie into math? But already I'm like, well, here we are. Here are all the similarities. I think that's it. I think actually, the feeling of not knowing is creating this out of control sensation where I feel so out of control, I don't even know what questions to ask every time I do ask a question, I'm gonna be honest when I ask an accountant a question, I've asked probably, I've probably spoken to eight accountants in my lifetime, and anytime I've asked them to explain anything to me, it has been incomprehensible. I don't know what they're saying, so I end up feeling. Dumber. So I feel dumb. Now I feel like I still don't understand, and then I feel like there's no way I can understand because this person is explaining it to me and I can't understand. So again, it's triggering this old math anxiety. So like even when I'm asking the que, and then also half the time I don't even know what question to ask, right? But when I do finally land on a question, the explanation just leaves me more confused. And this is how I assume students. It's not how I assume. I know how students feel in math class. It's like. We want them to ask us a question if they don't understand, and they're like, I can't even begin to know what to ask you because I have no idea what the fuck is going on. And then they ask the question, we explain it to them in this like kind voice. We're like, see, it makes sense now. And they're like, it actually makes less sense. So now they feel even worse about themselves because now they've tried. Like, at least when I don't try, like I, if my mindset actually was, you know what? I don't need to know what's going on. I trust my accountant, they're just gonna take care of it. I'm on a need to know basis. I don't need to know. I would feel a lot better. I would feel better. The point is, when you try to understand something, when you decide I'm gonna finally put effort in, and then you can't understand it. It doesn't feel good. I actually talk about this a lot because I always talk about how, uh, math anxiety leads to learners entering the fear anticipatory and avoidance cycle, which is like, you're scared of this thing, like I'm scared of my taxes, so I have all this anticipatory anxiety around it, which is what if I try to understand it and then I can't understand it, and like it makes me feel even worse, and I already feel not understanding it and not answering questions or asking questions. So I avoid, I go into avoidance, which I've done for a while, like I actually avoid for like 360 days of the year. I'm like, I'm just not even gonna think about it. And then when tax times comes and I decide to like break the avoidance cycle where I'm like, you know what? I'm not gonna avoid it, I'm actually gonna like see if I can understand it. It gets so much worse because like it feels like everything is so chaotic and helpless and crazy. And then now I've tried to do something about it, and I'm in a worse position because I feel dumb, and I would've rather just kept my head in the sand. And this is why honestly, so many people just don't try to do more math. They're like, I don't wanna know what I don't know because it's gonna make me feel shitty. But the truth is what I really need to do, I'm realizing as I say this out loud, is I need to find someone to explain this to me. Like I'm obviously capable of understanding how taxes work. Right. I can do calculus. I must be able to understand how fucking taxes work. If anyone is listening to this and would like to explain them to me, I think I need a Canadian accountant. This is not a pitch for an accountant, but I think I do need a Canadian person to explain to me how my taxes are working and explain it to me in a really nice manner. I need you to explain it to me like, in the way that I understand it, if I don't understand it, like just, just find another way. Like, so if anyone wants to explain my taxes to me, I actually just need to hire an accountant. So would you like to be my accountant? Okay, moving on. This is how my whole anxiety spiral started, two days ago, was with taxes, so I started feeling outta control with my taxes. Then what happened was I started feeling out of control about social media. I was like, oh my God, my taxes, like, I think that was just like in my mind, this feeling outta controlness, and then maybe it was a confirmation bias thing. I don't really know. I started like, subconsciously grasping onto everything I felt out of control about. I was like, oh my God, I'm so behind on social media. I've got all this content. It's all disorganized in my phone. I don't even know where it is, like where are all these videos? And then it comes time to make a social media post and I don't even know what to look for because it's all, I haven't categorized it all. Like, uh, whatever, like, blah, blah. Then I went to like Google Drive to find something and I couldn't find it, and I was like, I have. System here, like this is completely disorganized. Like what am I doing? And then I was like, oh, I don't know. I was like, where am I even organizing all my deadlines? Like how do I know I'm gonna get everything done this entire year? Like, and then me and David were talking about our band and I was like, we have all these songs. We just finished an album. We don't have a release plan. If we want stuff to come out in 2027, we have to start now. We haven't even started. And oh my god, it was on and on and on. And I don't know about you guys, but like I wake up and I just feel this way. Like I wake up and all of a sudden I'm like, I'm out of control. Everything's outta control.

Can a gratitude practice help?

Vanessa Vakharia 8:36

So last week I was telling my therapist this and my therapist was like, okay, but like, do you have a gratitude practice? And I was like, what the fuck? Like again, I really believe in a gratitude practice and I preach this all the time. Like she was like, instead of when you get up and you start thinking about all the things that you're doing wrong and all the things that are outta control, what if you instead start with the things you feel grateful for? And I was like, you know what? That's it. I am always like focusing on the back foot. Like right now, you can hear me. I sound insane and unhinged, right? Because I'm like, oh my God, like I'm behind on this. I don't know that I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So what if I actually do go into gratitude. Now, I was supposed to be doing this every day when I wake up and I feel this panic about all this stuff I'm behind on. I was supposed to be, I, I ha I was supposed to be doing my own exercise. I actually told my therapist this, I was like, this is a great idea. I actually teach students and teachers to do this thing called, "I used to think, now I know", right? Because we're so focused on all of this stuff, like we have not done and we're behind on. Instead of being like, yeah, but hold on. Look at how far I've come. So my idea was I should do this every morning when I get up. As soon as I start having these thoughts of like, oh my God, I'm so behind, I'm not good enough. I should be like, hold on, let's make note of something you've progressed on. Have I done that a single day this week? I have not. So we're gonna do it right now. Let's see if it works. Okay. So, okay. Okay. Okay. So I just told you guys all the things I'm stressed about, is this good? Should we end this? I don't know if we should release this. I sound insane.

David Kochberg 10:06

Yeah, we can decide that later.

Vanessa Vakharia 10:07

Okay, so you

David Kochberg 10:08

sound insane.

Vanessa Vakharia 10:09

Let's try. Let's try this. I used to think, now I know. Okay, so let's just think about some things I can celebrate now instead of focusing on all the things I feel out of control on. Okay. Number one, and this is hard. This is hard because right now my mind is like, no, no, like focus on all the things like my mind is trying to be like, but all the things you're so behind on you haven't done. Let's think about all of the things I have accomplished or I have progressed on. Okay, so for example. I used to blank and now I blank. Like, let's think of some progress here. Okay. You know what? I had two talks this week. I went to New York and to Chicago, and both of them were new talks that I hadn't done before. And normally I would've been so stressed about them. I would've been so stressed. I would've been nervous, I would've not been able to get to sleep at night. And actually. I was not stressed. I was like, I kind of knew. I was like, you know what? It's all good. I'm gonna tweak my slides. I'm gonna go in there with an air of curiosity and we're gonna see what happens. And I'm just, I know that. I know my stuff. So that's actually good, right? Like that is good. I like literally a year ago or months ago, I would not have reacted that way. I would've been like, oh my God, I'm panicked, these presentations would've weighed on my mind. They would've interfered with my like day-to-day life and they didn't, I actually had a great time, so that is progress. Okay. Number two, here's number. You know what? Here's something else that's great. Even though I was super stressed, like all week when I woke up in the morning, I'd wake up panicked. I didn't, I actually stuck to the behavior that I knew would make me feel good. So even though I woke up and wanted to like immediately get on my phone and start, because that's like kind of like, again, it's a control response you feel outta control. So like you look for something to control. And for me, I pick up my phone and start just like looking at emails and texts and social media and being like, what can provide me temporary relief, or what can I just do? Like my control mechanism is to work. So like normally I'm like, you've gotta get up and you start gotta start answering emails. But instead I was like, Nope, you're gonna get up, you're gonna make your cup of tea, you're gonna read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, you're gonna do your meditation with your ice pack on your face, and then you're gonna go to the gym. And you know what? I did it every single day. That is progress. Like I should be really proud of myself for that. Vanessa. Okay. Be proud of yourself. Like, great. That is progress. That's like amazing. That is good. You're controlling that. I'm in control of that. Okay. Okay. I need one more. I'm thinking about the tax thing. I feel like I need something to combat the tax outta controlness. Okay. Okay. Okay. I've got one. I'm here talking about it. I just put a call out to an accountant and also yesterday a friend of mine suggested her accountant for next year. Like for this year. I know I'm too late, whatever. And I emailed that accountant. So I got the ball rolling of potentially finding another accountant. And here is what I actually need to remember. I have been fine, right? No one has come for me. I have paid my taxes, even though I don't understand them, nothing bad has happened, right? So like, I think maybe this needs to be a thing of like, even though I don't fully understand it, they are being taken care of. My accountant knows obviously to some extent what's going on. And I do feel, honestly, when I talk to accountants, there are multiple ways to do a lot of things. So like, my accountant has made a decision to do things a certain way and it's working out fine, and I think I'm actually just, you know what?

My negativity bias is catastrophizing everything!

Vanessa Vakharia 13:34

Okay, here we go. Here we go. I think I am just catastrophizing all these things. Like I'm like, I'm like, what if I'm doing them wrong? I don't know that I'm doing them wrong. What if I'm paying too much in taxes? I don't know that that's happening. What if I'm paying too little in taxes? I don't actually know that that's happening. What if there's a better way to do X, Y, and Z? I don't actually know that any of these things are true. Okay. That is actually calming me down. I'm just making this up. I'm just thinking of the what if worst case scenario. What if, what if, as Mel Robbins says, what if the best thing happens? Like, what if I'm paying the exact right amount of taxes, right? What if I, what if I'm actually getting away with not knowing anything and not doing any of the work myself because my accountant does it and I don't need to understand it? What if my accountant has found some amazing ways for me to save money, to pay my taxes responsibly in a non-labor intensive way that could be happening? And this actually reminds me we are, is the negativity bias guys. It's the negativity bias, always focusing on the what if the worst thing happens? It's like, but nothing bad is happening. Everything could be fine. So why don't I just choose to believe that? And that is the question. Why don't we just choose to believe that the best thing is happening? And again, this is gonna help me. This is gonna, okay. Thank you guys for listening. This is actually now starting to help me. This is gonna help because why don't we just focus on the best thing. Because we are born with a negativity bias for protection. That's what's happening. Our brains are trying to protect us. So I constantly wake up scanning my environment for threats. I really do. I wake up being like, what could I have missed out on? What could I have fucked up? Like what could I be doing wrong? Like, oh my God, and that's what's happening. But what I need to do is. Actually what my therapist said, which is, what am I doing right? I have to get up and write down these things. I just told you, here are all the things I'm doing right. I'm sticking to my routine, I'm going to the gym. I'm eating healthy. I am making a to-do list. See, already watch guys. As I'm talking, I'm like, yeah, but my to-do list is a mess and I haven't like coordinated it properly and maybe I should be using a physical calendar. Okay, so now what do I do? Yes. Those things are true. Maybe, but why am I focused again on the all the things I'm doing wrong? Like I haven't missed a deadline. Like I'm carrying on, like everything's fine. But I guess we're always like, but what if we could be doing this thing better? Honestly, I remember listening to this Mel Robbins podcast episode and she said in it, no, her guest said, everyone dies with a to-do list. Like you're never gonna die being like, ha, yeah, I guess I've figured it all out and I'm all done. That's not what happens. We're constantly working on things. We're constantly works in progress. Like, you know, we are curious and interested and always wanting to try new things and do things better. So we're always gonna feel a little bit of. What if I try this, what I if I try that. And I notice this not just for myself but my friends, right? We're always focused on our deficits. Like, oh, I just can't get it together. Like, I can't make it to the gym. I can't ever get my to-do list straight. I'm always behind. Like, so how do I rewire that thought? And I think I really have to change my mentality of being like, I'm trying my best, and every morning I need to write, you know what? Every morning and every night I am, I need to do this. I need to, every morning I need to wake up and be like, okay, here's something great that happened, or something I'm really, really proud of and really in control of. And at the end of the day, I need to be like, here's something I really fucking nailed today. Instead of thinking of the three things I did not get done. Period. I have to do it. I have to do it starting right now. I'm doing it right now vocally on the podcast, but I need to write them down. Okay. We now have four hours and 15 minutes until my therapy session.

How this all relates to math education

Vanessa Vakharia 17:18

Okay? So I do feel just to circle this back, even though this is about me, but now I'm a little deescalated. Thank fuck. I wanna think about students and math because this really is making me think so much of what happens with not just our students, but teachers. I feel like this is the thing is as educators, we are so burnt down and stressed because there's always a million more things we could be doing that we're not doing. We really do not take the time to be like, look at the 4 million things I did this week. Look at the incredible experiences I created for students. Look at that student that I made laugh. Look at the student that I made smile. Look at this like huge win I had. There's gonna be an endless array of things we have yet to do, and what makes it even worse slash better is we're constantly going to professional development. What, what is the definition of professional development? Like developing professionally, that means growing and trying new things. So every time we go to a pd, it's like, that's so exciting, but I feel like we can't help but feel a bit deficit about it because like we're basically being taught to do things we are not doing. Right. Like yeah, sometimes. I mean, I hope that I'm always like at least affirming the educators in the room to be like, oh my God, look at all the amazing stuff you are doing, but I'm also teaching you new things, which means there's a chance you're gonna leave and be like, oh my God, now there's even more stuff I need to do. How do we approach that with excitement and curiosity instead of deficit thinking about what we're already doing? And that's a question I'm throwing out there. If you have any advice, honestly, text me right now. Honestly, I I'm, I, I feel like you're probably all texting me right now. My phone is probably blowing up because you're probably all deeply concerned, but like, don't be, but I will take any advice. Um, don't be, I feel like I am, I mean, we know that I'm an outer processor. You guys know if you've been listening to me for this long, not today, but like in general life, and I do feel like it's like, like having that grace to be like, we can have all the strategies. And guys, I have so many strategies. I always welcome more strategies and I'm always learning more strategies. I'm always reading, I'm seeing a therapist, like I'm listening to podcasts. But even with the strategies, we have to remember that we are fighting a biological evolutionary, um, characteristic. Because sometimes, like honestly today I had an outburst just being like, what is wrong with me? Like, why am I always thinking like, okay guys, I'm a positive per like, I consider myself to be a positive person. Okay. I do. However, and like, and like this isn't like an egotistical thing. Like, oh my God, I'm so positive. But I really, I am constantly trying and do see the positive side of things. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I can be like, my life is amazing. I'm so grateful for this, dah, dah, dah, dah. But the voice in my head, like the, the clenching feeling around my chest of like constantly feeling like the other shoe is going to drop, I feel like that is tied to. Feeling like a not enoughness, like we're never gonna be doing enough. Like there's some things out of control. We're gonna get in trouble. And I do feel like so much of that is tied to education. Like I really, really feel like it's tied to what we were taught in school, which was there's always more you could be doing. You always need to be productive. You need to be getting good grades. Like if you're sitting around daydreaming, you're lazy, like you're a bad student. Like there's this idea of like, you're supposed to have all your shit together and just know how to do all these things and never ask the same question twice. Never even ask a question. Just like know and know what everybody else knows. Now it sounds like I'm blaming the entire education system and math class for my anxiety and personal failings as a human, which I'm not, but I do think it's part of it. So I actually listened to two podcasts in the past few months. One with Mel Robbins, one with Elizabeth Gilbert, and they were incredible. They were about productivity and how it is one of our biggest cultural problems of this time, this feeling that we have to constantly be productive. And hustling and how it's leading to extreme burnout. Like just this idea of like, we're never doing enough. And in my mind I was like, I, I actually think Mel Robbins made this tie to the classroom experience. It's just an interesting thing to think about and look at. I won't like harp on it, but I do think it's really important for us to think as educators or humans, whoever's listening to this, who grew up in this system, to think of how we want to make that experience different for the kids that we teach, right? Like this idea of like, if you're not doing something, if you're not producing something, you're not a valuable citizen. Because it has led to so many of us like feeling like we cannot relax or ever like do anything right or do anything enough. And it makes me like, it makes me go back to negativity bias. And actually what I'm really thinking about now is not only negativity bias, but confirmation bias. Because I think I really struggle with that too. This idea of like. I feel out of, oh my God. No, I think I'm realizing what happened now, okay guys, I'm having an epiphany. I'm having an epiphany. What happened is, remember I told you guys, it all started with the tax thing, so I'm feeling out of control. I feel like everything's out of control. Okay, great. So all of a sudden that has been triggered in me. I'm out of control. So now the sneaky confirmation bias kicks in where like again, this is something we have evolved with. Like we want to confirm that what we believe is true, it helps us feel safer. So now I feel like I'm subconsciously trying to confirm that I am out of control. And that's probably why I started fucking being like, and my calendar's out of control and all of these photos are disorganized on my phone and I don't even know where these deadlines are. And like, I need to plan 2027. I guess I'm like subconsciously trying to find. Confirmation that I am out of control. Instead of just being like, I feel out of control with my taxes, let me deal with that because I'm not actually out of control here. Right? I just don't understand a few things. That's literally it. That's all that's happening right now. And then moving on that, and that's what a spiral often is. A spiral is often negativity bias and confirmation bias. Just like being besties and creating complete chaos on club night at 3:00 AM after too many vodka shots like that, is it, that's what's happening. They're just like, woo, like let's fucking go. Like, I actually think that is what's happening. So then the question becomes, what strategies do I have? To negate those two things to be like, I know what's up, you guys. I know what you're up to. And I, I, this is one of those moments where I think I also get mad at myself because I'm like, oh my God. Like I know better. I know all the strategies, like why am I not practicing what I preach? But for everyone listening, who probably feels the same way sometimes. That's why the saying it's easier said than done, literally exists. Because it's easier said than done. Honestly. Like, do you, like therapists need therapists too, right? Like every single like therapist I know has their own therapist because it's not just because, you know, strategy suddenly like you're like, fine, right? Like. Knowing something and acting on it are two different things, right? Like belief and behavior are two different things. So even though we know these strategies, the hardest time to employ them is when you're in crisis, right? Like the hardest time to employ take a deep breath and like chill out is when you're in the middle of crisis. That's actually why they say, it's a practice. Meditation is a practice because you're supposed to fucking practice it before you really need to use it, right? You're supposed to practice it every single day, meditate for 10 minutes every single day, so that when the time comes when you're hyperventilating on a podcast, you know, you can then easily go into meditating for 10 minutes. You're not like for the first time ever trying to be like, oh my God, let me figure out how to meditate now that I'm in hyperventilation mode. Right? And that's the same with math. I have to say. This is why it's like you're not trying to learn like the time to learn how to like solve the quadratic equation or multiply fractions is not on the test, right? It's not the day before, even when you're escalated about the test. You wanna be in the regular practice of mathematical activity and thinking every single day so that when you face a challenging problem or a high stake situation, it's muscle memory to you. Okay, so you know what? This is what I'm gonna congratulate myself for doing another thing, quote unquote, right? Which is I do meditate as a practice. It might not sound like it right now, but I do meditate almost every single morning I do. So yes, sometimes it's hard to call in those strategies in the moment, and I'm being hard on myself for that. But if you were saying to me, yeah, I know, like it's just really hard for me to, in the moment to catch myself, I just start panicking. I wouldn't be like, you're a horrible person. I'd be like, yes, that's completely normal and all you can do every time is pause, try to deescalate and try to employ one of your strategies. And quite frankly, that's what I did this morning. I woke up panicked and I was like, oh my God, I just wanna go smoke a pack of cigarettes even though I haven't smoked in five months. And I'm just gonna like, I just wanna order a coffee and smoke cigs. And I was like. What you're going to do, even if you don't want to, is Mel Robbins 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, put on your clothes and go to the gym. And I did because I've been in the practice of going to the gym all week that today it was muscle memory and I just did it and I felt so much better after.

How to take your own advice

Vanessa Vakharia 26:09

Okay. So all of that to say, it's so much easier to give advice than to take your own advice or to take advice from others, but also I wanna just like, I guess, share that on my like quote unquote best days, you know, on the days where I'm like aligned, I am using all my strategies, I feel like I can get myself out of a negative mind loop. Those days happen. Right? And I really believe those days happen more and more the more you engage in the practices. I think about like days when I've like been anxious for like, you know, I've woken up super anxious and I've just been like, fuck it, I'm not using a single strategy and it persists. Whereas like if I start using the strategies, it actually like things slowly but surely calm down and like a day later or maybe two days or maybe that evening, I do move out of feeling, out of control and more into a place of being like, first of all, you can't control everything in life. That is just a fact, and that's completely fine. And the things you feel out of control of A, do not matter, or B, are not as outta control as you think I do. And there, there are days like obviously right now where it's a lot harder to employ those strategies and to get into that type of aligned mindset, it's a lot harder. That being said, those days aren't all the time. And I kind of just want, I, first of all really, I came on here because David kind of forced me to, 'cause he was getting really annoyed at me. And I don't know if this was beneficial to, quite frankly, anyone except for David who's raising his hand right now, um, but I do, I mean, I actually feel a lot better, which is why one of my favorite strategies is actually just outer processing. Like really, because I actually didn't even really know what was going on until I, until I started to tell you guys. And I couldn't tell David 'cause he didn't wanna listen unless he was recording this as a podcast. And now I'm like, okay, I actually see what happened. And really I feel like that's at the heart of the work of that all of us are doing is seeing our patterns. Seeing what's happening, seeing what's actually the actual root, like, holy fuck. I honestly do feel so much better. I'm like, it's not about the taxes, it's about, it's not about the calendar. It's not, it's about feeling out of control and like I'm doing something wrong. It's a control thing.

Outro

Vanessa Vakharia 28:15

Okay guys, I don't know what has happened. It's not that I blacked out or dissociated 'cause I am very present. But, uh, David is telling me that I do not sound as self-indulgent and egotistical and negative as I think I do right now, and to just trust him with the process. So maybe this episode will air, if you're listening to me say this, then it has aired. But thank you guys for listening. It actually really, really helped. I am going to open my phone journal right now. Open my notes up like I was told to a week ago by my therapist and start a note that I will every morning and every night write in. I'm doing it. I'm promising you this. Fuck, okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. Believe, behave, become. We've gotta change our behavior. If we wanna change our core beliefs, it's happening. If you're listening still, um. Text me. Text me if you have any ideas, if you have any advice, if you feel the same way. And most of all, if you're an accountant who wants to help me, and I'll see you guys next week on the Math Therapy podcast, who the fuck knows what the episode will be about? Because things have gotten completely off the rails. But you know what? I do know one thing. My taxes will be submitted by then. Peace out, peace, love, and pi.

David Kochberg 29:26

Like get outta here. Hello, this is David. Usually Vanessa would insist that you share an episode, but because she's not convinced that we should even be publishing this episode, if I have my way, we will publish it and I will be the one now to insist that you share this episode with that friend of yours who just always seems a little wound up and really loves to outer process directly at your face. You could just be like, Hey, I've got this great podcast episode I think you'd really love. Just send them this one. And then maybe by comparison they'll listen to it and be like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm in better shape than I thought.

Vanessa Vakharia 30:06

Or maybe what? Or maybe you two will start a podcast.

David Kochberg 30:10

Yeah. Okay.

Vanessa Vakharia 30:11

You and your friend who's out or processing.

David Kochberg 30:13

Now it's time to say goodbye. Bye, Vanessa.

Vanessa Vakharia 30:20

I don't know that we can air any of this.

David Kochberg 30:22

we can decide this later. I think this is all actually really good.

Vanessa Vakharia 30:25

Like I sound unhinged,

David Kochberg 30:28

which is why it's so entertaining. Okay. just do. Yeah,

Vanessa Vakharia 30:31

I'm exhausted now.

David Kochberg 30:32

Which is good. mission accomplished from my perspective.

Vanessa Vakharia 30:35

Okay.