Kallen Currie

Kallen Currie 0:03

it's not gonna happen overnight. It's not gonna happen in a month, a year. It's building that repetition, the relationships with your students, It's not gonna happen now, but could happen later. And when it does, it's probably gonna be the best feeling you've ever felt, right? Kids read off your energy 100%. Like, if you show up to work being neutral, maybe dismissive with the kids, it's not gonna create positive energy in your class, right? Positivity. Like, you're the role model, too, right, at the end of the day. So if they see you being positive to, them, they're gonna carry that on to their peers, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 0:36

Hello, and welcome back to Math Therapy, guys. I'm your host, Vanessa Vakharia, and today I've got something a little different for you. So I met today's guest, phys ed teacher and sports coach Kallen Currie, at a conference in Saskatoon. And if you're like, why is there a phys ed teacher on Math Therapy today?" Well, this episode is especially for you. Kallen is a physical education teacher from Mistawasis First Nation in Saskatchewan. And here's the thing: he uses sports to help kids build confidence, deal with failure, manage anxiety, and most importantly, guys, find their place on the team. Kallen has me fully convinced that maybe we need to start treating math class a little more like a team sport. See, in sports, nobody expects every kid to be the same kind of player. You need different strengths and different roles, and everyone knows you're gonna screw up and fail along the way. But somehow in math class, we've convinced kids that, like, everyone should be good at the same things in the same way, at the same speed, and that getting something wrong might mean you're not a math person. Kallen and I talk about why a disengaged student might actually just be an anxious student. We talk about how we can make failure feel safer, why belonging has to come before performance, and how one kid finding the right position on a lacrosse team completely changed the way I think about what it means for a student to succeed. Also, okay, this is weird, but apparently telling a student they have 1,000 aura, is a legitimate teaching strategy. So you're welcome, and sorry in advance. Okay, let's get into my live conversation with Kallen Currie

How to engage an anxious student in class

Vanessa Vakharia 2:13

Kallen, welcome to the podcast.

Kallen Currie 2:15

Thanks for having me.

Vanessa Vakharia 2:16

Okay, so how are you feeling?

Kallen Currie 2:17

Good. Good. A little tired. I've not had my, uh, morning coffee yet, but, uh, a little nervous too, but pretty much know everybody in here, so

Vanessa Vakharia 2:25

no worries. Okay, well, I know zero people in here. Okay. So I don't know who has, I don't know who has the advantage. So tell us, you are... Tell us about being nervous.

Kallen Currie 2:32

get nervous pretty easy. I do, I think, suffer from anxiety quite a bit, whether it's being at work or playing lots of sports. but I think it's good to be nervous. I think it just shows that you care about what you're doing. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 2:44

Well, a lot of us, so we're talking to a bunch of teachers in the room that all teach different subjects, right? Right. Everyone here teaches something different, and I'm a math educator, and the reason I wanted to have you on is because you are a gym teacher.

Kallen Currie 2:55

Yeah. Correct.

Vanessa Vakharia 2:56

You're an athlete.

Kallen Currie 2:57

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 2:58

And I wanna know, like, you know, we have something in common, which is that we both have nervous students, right? Correct, yeah. The first time we talked I was telling you, we talk a lot about math anxiety, but who here remembers the anxiety of, like, getting picked last in gym class? Right? Like yes, hands are going up. I wanna know how you deal with anxious students who are in your classroom, and they look like they're unmotivated and disengaged, but you can tell they're actually feeling nervous and anxious. First of all, how can you tell that it's not a motivation issue, but that they're maybe just feeling nervous?

Kallen Currie 3:30

first thing to look for is obviously body language I think is a big one. Those of you from Mistawasis, you know that those kids kind of take themselves out from, like you said, being picked last or something like that. So look for body language. Another thing too is there's like a tension in phys ed I feel like. I don't know what it is, but, I'm lucky that I get to play music in my phys ed class. And you know what kids listen to these days. It's pretty silly most of the time. So if you can get some music going, ease the tension, get that anxiety out. You, you'll see a little kid pop out a dance move. You know what I mean? So just small things like that to kind of get them- So

Vanessa Vakharia 4:03

like getting them into their bodies kind of.

Kallen Currie 4:04

Yeah, yeah. Their comfort zones.

Vanessa Vakharia 4:06

Why... So those are really good things to look for. What should we do? Like let's say you notice a student that's like off to the side, they're on the s- they're taking themselves out of the game. Yep. What's a good way to approach that without making them feel like they're being like picked on?

Kallen Currie 4:19

Maybe just talk to them one-on-one, kind of, you know, it's a little tough in phys ed sometimes. You got 20 kids screaming around, right? So going to talk to another kid to the side can be a little difficult at times, but maybe just get to the root of the problem by showing that they're, they're valued first, right? It's okay to kinda be out of the thing, but then get to the root of the cause. Are you, shy of the ball? Is something bugging you? Maybe you're just not a fan of this game. If so, why? Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 4:46

So this is really interesting 'cause for those of us who teach, who don't teach gym, but let's say we teach math or English or another subject, one thing that probably feels very common is we often thinks, think our students are disengaged because they don't like the subject, right? Right. Like maybe they hate math.

Kallen Currie 5:02

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:02

How often is it that one of your students is kind of struggling, not because they hate gym- Yeah but because there's something else going on?

Kallen Currie 5:11

it happens more than you think, right? think, too, a big part of it is you don't know what they're going through maybe back home, if they've eaten that morning, if they've slept the night before, right? So kind of having that, building that relationship with your students is important to kind of be able to ask them those questions- and kind of understand them a bit more, right? Read their energy.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:32

Yeah.

Kallen Currie 5:32

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:32

100%.

Kallen's relationship with math

Vanessa Vakharia 5:33

You said that you hated math yourself. Can you tell us a bit about that?

Kallen Currie 5:36

Yeah. So growing up I th- well, growing up I loved math. I wish... I don't know if Donna's in here, but she was my grade two teacher. She's currently working at our school as well now, but she used to do, like, Mad Minute, those kind of fun things with math.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:48

Do you like it?

Kallen Currie 5:49

I liked it, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 5:50

Oh my God, people hate Mad Minutes.

Kallen Currie 5:51

I know. I know. That's what I... It's funny because it's like, "Oh, gotta do it as fast as you can."

Vanessa Vakharia 5:55

But you liked it.

Kallen Currie 5:55

Yeah, because of, like I said, I like to blabble and I like to do things at a fast paced kind of thing. But,

Vanessa Vakharia 6:02

That's really interesting

Kallen Currie 6:02

when it got really slowed down, once you get to the middle years and high school- it gets really intimidating. There's- four le- four numbers, but there's like a big page to answer it. That kind of thing kind of steered me away. So when I got to high school, I actually failed grade 10 math two times, so-

Vanessa Vakharia 6:21

We're kind of twins- Yeah 'cause I failed grade 11 math twice.

Kallen Currie 6:23

Yeah, so-

Vanessa Vakharia 6:23

I don't know, cute for us

Kallen Currie 6:24

it's like the craziest thing to do that, I think, in high school, right? You kind of feel like, hate to say it, but you feel like you're stupid. And, um, you don't want to be a grade 11 taking a grade 10 math. You feel kind of silly doing that. So yeah, those kind of, things kind of steered me away from having a positive relationship with math.

Vanessa Vakharia 6:41

So I have a question about- Yeah your math classrooms-

Kallen Currie 6:45

Yep

Vanessa Vakharia 6:45

in high school.

Kallen Currie 6:46

Right.

Vanessa Vakharia 6:46

What do you feel it was about them, like aside from having... it's, it's interesting what you said, right? That idea of having a small question, but a big page to answer it, you found that intimidating. Let's start there.

Kallen Currie 6:57

Yep.

Vanessa Vakharia 6:58

Why was that intimidating? What was the impression you got by looking at that page?

Kallen Currie 7:02

so the way I was taught in high school, those two times that I did fail, most of it was taught out of a textbook. And I know there's nowadays teachers are more open-minded to teaching math in different ways, you know, be hands-on, things like that. But just learning out of a textbook just kind of steered me away from, you know, making those connections with math.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:24

And did you, by looking at that page were you like, "Oh my God, I need to put a lot of information down here"?

Kallen Currie 7:29

Yeah, like, and then I feel like if I... There was times, too, I would think I got the right answer, but the, my work, you know when they say show your work, wasn't like long or- Yeah anything. And it'd be like, "This can't be right." Just scribble it out, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:41

Well, I think a lot of us struggle with that- Yeah now even as educators is how do we get kids to show their thinking without intimidating them, right?

Kallen Currie 7:50

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 7:50

So what, what could a teacher have done to make you feel better in those classes?

Kallen Currie 7:55

maybe make you feel like you're not alone, offer some more support. I know there's been teachers, still teachers out there to this day that they show it on the whiteboard and then they kind of go sit back in their desk- instead of constantly circling around the class. You know what I mean? And that's one thing that I, I moved to phys ed for was so that I'm on my feet all the time, right? I can't stand sitting in a desk myself, so not too sure how some teachers can do that. But I think that would've helped me a lot, just constant support. Made me feel like you're on a team rather than alone,

Should we teach math like a team sport?

Kallen Currie 8:24

right?

Vanessa Vakharia 8:24

I wanna talk more about that because it's interesting as a phys ed teacher that you're bringing up these things. Like you're talking about movement.

Kallen Currie 8:31

Yep.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:31

Right? You're talking about this idea of teamwork and of feeling supported. You're kind of talking about coaching-

Kallen Currie 8:37

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 8:38

in a way. Right. and I'm curious, I've always thought that we as math teachers or as like traditional classroom teachers have a lot to learn from gym class because I'll just speak for math because I teach math, math is so often treated like this solo sport.

Kallen Currie 8:52

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:52

Just so use sporting language- Yeah. you know? how could we treat math class like more of a team?

Kallen Currie 8:58

Oh, creating that camaraderie, I think, would be a big one in the classroom. I know I've seen teachers do groups with math where you're on teams or you can play games, right, where you're on teams against each other. And just having that sense of being on a team does wonders for kids, right? Feeling like you're not alone, like you have your friends next to you. That's a big thing for kids.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:18

So I have a question about that because I think a lot of teachers are intimidated about, like, okay, so let's say we put- kids on this team in math class, like, right? We have, like, groups of three or four. What if some of them don't get along? Or what if they're at different skill levels? Like, now that I'm saying it out loud though, I'm like, but you must do that in gym all the time.

Kallen Currie 9:35

Yeah. Well, even-

Vanessa Vakharia 9:36

So t- like, what do you do?

Kallen Currie 9:37

Just looking at, like, even sports in general, like, you just throw them on a team. You're all not gonna be the same type of player. You're all not gonna be the same, like, the amount of times I've played with people you, like, low-key actually don't like. You just gotta learn to like them, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 9:50

What did you just say? Say that louder for the crowd, please.

Kallen Currie 9:51

As the kids would say- you actually low-key don't like s- Some kid lingo there. But, uh, yeah, you just kind of learn to get along as you're a team because you're experiencing things together, right? You're going through hardships together, and that creates, you know, bonds basically. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 10:08

That... I'm getting weirdly emotional. Because Peter Liljedahl, who wrote Thinking Classrooms-

Kallen Currie 10:13

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 10:13

Building Thinking Classrooms, he always says about this exact phenomenon, he says it's really hard to hate someone up close. You know? So it's like you can low-key not like someone or whatever, but then you're all of a sudden on a team with them and, like, there they are in front of you, and now you have to work on a problem together. But I love what you just said because I feel like you just kicked it up a notch to be like you're going through something together. And what if we looked at that math problem or that game we have to play or that project we have to do as a challenge we're overcoming together?

Kallen Currie 10:44

Exactly. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 10:45

That is so cool.

Give kids the time to find their role

Kallen Currie 10:46

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 10:46

So, like, say more. Like, in a j- in a cla- in a gym class-

Kallen Currie 10:50

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 10:50

what are some, do you teach them, like, strategies of, like, what do you do when there's conflict, or how do you, like, make sure everyone's playing, like, stuff like that?

Kallen Currie 10:58

Just kind of giving them Roles I would think is a big thing.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:00

Roles

Kallen Currie 11:01

I know the last time we talked- Not

Vanessa Vakharia 11:02

Roles, not rules, right?

Kallen Currie 11:03

Yeah. Roles.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:03

Yeah. Tell me, tell this right.

Kallen Currie 11:04

Roles.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:04

Okay.

Kallen Currie 11:05

Yeah, like in lacrosse, for example, I don't know if everyone's familiar with lacrosse, but,

Vanessa Vakharia 11:09

I'm absolutely not. Yeah. But

Kallen Currie 11:10

okay.

Vanessa Vakharia 11:10

It's fine.

Kallen Currie 11:11

So there's, like, three main positions, I guess, when you're kind of getting started, right? There's the goalie. There's defense. There's offense. So, like, everyone, like, if you get a, a taller kid, maybe he's not as fast, throw him on defense, right? There's a model we kind of use in lacrosse, that a coach taught me before. It's if you're a defenseman, you're kind of built like a buffalo, right? You're stronger. You're a bigger person, so you're good for defense. Whereas if you're a wolf, you can be faster, swifter, right? That's your position. And, uh, goalie is a turtle because you can deflect things. You're, you're strong, and you stay in there. Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 11:48

Okay, so what, tell us what happened with this kid.

Kallen Currie 11:51

Oh, yeah. So I was telling her about a story

Vanessa Vakharia 11:53

with a kid. Oh yeah, sorry. That was a really bad segue on my end because I know the story.

Kallen Currie 11:56

He, he wa- he wanted to play lacrosse so bad. He was, um, kinda left out from joining any other sports throughout the year. He wasn't the fastest, wasn't the strongest. Eventually tried playing player, like offense. Wasn't fast enough, was kind of not doing very good. Defenseman, scared to hit somebody so we thought we'd try this kid in goalie, and uh-

Vanessa Vakharia 12:17

The turtle

Kallen Currie 12:18

the turtle, and he ended up, you know, flourishing and we... They were all taking turns playing goalie at this point, 'cause we were a new team. And ended up doing the best. I think we didn't do too good this year, so he only let in about 10 goals compared to the other 23 that we would get scored on every other game. So eventually he found a role in goalie, and eventually the kids do acknowledged him more as a, not only as a lacrosse player, but as a, a student at school. You know, he'd be walking, they're like, "Hey Cassius, were you gonna play goalie tonight? You're goalie tonight." You know? Wow. And then he, it's all he looked forward to. "When's our next lacrosse game? When's our next lacrosse game?"

Vanessa Vakharia 12:54

It's so crazy because obviously what you're saying is very sport oriented. And in case you guys can't tell, I don't know anything about sports- except for the two weeks I jumped on the Blue Jays bandwagon last year, and I do plan to get back on it- when we're in the World Series. I have my hat ready. But that being said, what you're saying, that idea of giving students roles actually ties into something you just said earlier today, which is you said not every kid is gonna be the same type of player. And in fact, on a team, and what I did learn from watching the World Series for two weeks, is that you don't want a team of the same player.

Kallen Currie 13:28

Exactly, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:28

Because what, like you can't have 20 goalies or however many people are on a team. Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, you can't do that. But in a traditional classroom, we expect kids to be the same type of student. We expect them to all be fast, to all know their math facts- to all solve problems in the way they're supposed to solve them, and that makes no sense.

Kallen Currie 13:45

Exactly, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:46

So I'm like now wondering how we can bring this idea into our classrooms. Because you were able to see his strengths, like as an educator, which is so cool, right? Like you were able to see his strengths and then p- give him a role in which he would find success in. Yeah. And then when he found a role that he found success in, he felt successful. Then when he felt successful, he wanted to show up more and engage. Yeah. And when he wanted to show up more and engage, he became a part of a team. Like, we're talking about belonging, but we're actu- also talking about you having that skill to f- to see where he might thrive. What tips can you give us? Like, how can we see where students can thrive, and also how can we kind of bo- broaden our definition of thriving maybe so that we are seeing Like success is something bigger than just like getting the right answer- Yeah and getting a good grade.

Kallen Currie 14:34

Yeah. So I was just talking about this with my partner last night too. you have to go through lots of failures to feel success, and I think that's where kids kind of get the wrong or steered away from it, right? And maybe even educators, too. But you, without success, or sorry, without failure, you can't get success. So I guess understanding that you're gonna have to go through a few f- few failures, to get success is really important. Because you're not- gonna automatically be successful at anything.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:00

Well, and you said you tried him at the two other roles- Yeah and he didn't do so hot, and then he got moved to goalie.

Kallen Currie 15:05

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:05

So how did you actually help him go through those failures and not give up until he got to the goalie position?

Kallen Currie 15:11

Just repetition of games, I guess. He, he, uh, tried it a few times, and then if, you know, try goalie.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:18

So when he, okay, when he like wasn't so good at being offense what did, like what did, w- was he ever like, "Oh, f- fuck it. Like I'm out."

Kallen Currie 15:25

Yeah. No, and we've had more kids too on the team who exact same thing, like they, um, didn't find their role on the team until actually... 'Cause it, it was a new sport to these kids, too, so they didn't- Right quite know where they were, right? But I explained to them with the animals and stuff, like you're gonna find a role on the team, and you know, you'll, you'll f- you'll find it. Y- maybe not now, maybe next game. If not that game, maybe the next game after that.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:49

Okay. So I wanna, like I want everyone to take this in because I feel like you did this so naturally. You're not even like mapping how- skillful this is.

Kallen Currie 15:58

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:58

But this is really skillful. You gave them an experience to engage. That experience was likely to result in failure because it's something new, and it might not be their skill set. But you preempted the experience by telling them that, by saying, "Everyone has different roles. You might not find your role today, but maybe you'll find it next time. And the only way you're gonna find your role is by trying different roles." So you already have that belief, right? You're giving them that belief. You're explaining that to them. Now you're giving them the opportunity to be- ta- engage in a behavior, which is you're gonna try a different position, see how you do, and now it doesn't land so hard when maybe they don't get the outcome they wanted with that because they know there is gonna be another chance to try something else. You also said the words, "You will find your role." And imagine if we said that to kids in our classroom. Yeah. "You will find your place. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow. It might not be next week. But there is a place for you here."

Kallen Currie 16:52

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 16:52

And I think that is pro- one of like the most- Yeah powerful things you can do.

Kallen Currie 16:55

And like one of the most rewarding things too, not only being a phys ed teacher but like a coach, I'm sure the same thing with the teacher, is like watching a kid go through a couple failures, and then when it clicks for them, they're like, you know? That's, that's a good feeling.

Vanessa Vakharia 17:09

Yeah. That's really, really incredible.

Kallen Currie 17:11

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 17:11

Oh my God. Okay. Well, I feel like that is such a strong message and something we can all do.

Positivity is a superpower

Vanessa Vakharia 17:17

What else do you want us to know? Like, is there anything else that you're kinda like, thinking about your own math experience and the way you run your gym class right now, is there anything else you feel like it would be useful to bring into our classrooms?

Kallen Currie 17:29

Uh, for sure. Positivity, I think, is a big one, right? Kids read off your energy 100%. Like, if you show up to work being neutral, maybe dismissive with the kids, it's not gonna create positive energy in your class, right? Positivity. Like, you're the role model, too, right, at the end of the day. So if they see you being positive to, um, them, they're gonna carry that on to their peers, right? So that's a big one I would encourage alwa- even if some days you really don't feel like you can, try.

Vanessa Vakharia 17:58

Yeah.

Kallen Currie 17:58

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 17:59

And what does positivity look like? It's a word that I feel like has taken on so much, right? We sometimes even talk about, like, toxic positivity. Yeah. What, what is your version of what it means to show up as a positive role model for students?

Kallen Currie 18:11

Um, Smile, be encouraging, um, positive affirmations. Ooh, give us one. Like, give me one. An easy one. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:15

Give me, just give me one. I would actually like a positive affirmation. I need it. Um,

Kallen Currie 18:23

okay. A funny one these kids are saying nowadays is, "You have great aura today." You have awesome aura."

Vanessa Vakharia 18:28

Why is that funny?

Kallen Currie 18:29

I, uh-

Vanessa Vakharia 18:30

I think that's, like, a legit thing to say.

Kallen Currie 18:32

It's like they always say it and, like, when-

Vanessa Vakharia 18:34

They do?

Kallen Currie 18:34

another kid says that to each other, that's like, it's like the nicest thing you could say to somebody,

Vanessa Vakharia 18:39

you have a great aura."

Kallen Currie 18:40

Yeah. Or, "You have a thousand aura," and I'm like, But they love it. They say it to each other all the time.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:45

Okay, I love it. I love this.

Kallen Currie 18:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:47

Okay, so we all need you-have-a-great-aura posters-

Kallen Currie 18:50

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 18:51

in our classroom.

Kallen Currie 18:51

You have a thousand aura. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:52

What's a thousand? That's grammatically incorrect. I don't know. I guess that's- No, don't like that

Kallen Currie 18:55

the top of max of aura, I guess.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:57

Okay, that's, that's something for the math teachers to discuss, in my opinion.

Kallen Currie 19:00

Yeah. If you said that to a kid, they'd smile, and they'd probably be like, like, love you for you saying that to them.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:05

Well, and you know what? I think we make a lot of fun of positive affirmations. Yeah. But tell us why it's actually important.

Kallen Currie 19:11

Cause you Like right now, everyone's laughing, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 19:13

I know we're having a good time

Kallen Currie 19:15

if, if your kid's laughing, you're easing their tension. You're, they feel positive. They feel safe, too, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 19:20

Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, I always talk about co-regulation. Polyvagal theory tells us this. We have evolved to co-regulate. So if Kallen and I were sitting up here all grumpy and serious, like, you guys would kind of be like, "Ugh." Like, you can feel- Yeah you can legit feel someone's aura. This is actually true, right? Yeah. It, it sounds woo-woo, but it's actually science. We can feel one another's energy. So it's true. That idea of you bringing positivity into the room, getting a student to laugh literally does physically and emotionally and spiritually lightens us to absorb content later, right? And to actually feel more confident about ourselves.

What does gym possibly have to do with math class?!

Vanessa Vakharia 19:53

This has been so amazing. We have, I don't know h- the time. We only have five minutes left, and I actually would love to open it up to see if anyone has any questions for you. Before I do that, is there anything you wanted to say that I didn't ask you?

Kallen Currie 20:04

I think we covered it all. Not too sure. What are some of the biggest similarities you see to math as to phys ed class?

Vanessa Vakharia 20:11

He's, he's interviewing me. Yeah. He just plot twisted me.

Kallen Currie 20:15

Yeah, there you go. What just happened? There's no reverse. Um,

Vanessa Vakharia 20:17

you know what, it's funny you say that because I think a lot of people would be like, "I don't understand what gym has to do with math class."

Kallen Currie 20:22

Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 20:23

But to me, if you think about it, they're both, both very performance-oriented.

Kallen Currie 20:27

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 20:27

But- I actually think with math class, we for some reason are, like, stuck to the performance aspect. Like, we have not managed to do what gym class has done. I see gym class more as, yeah, obviously sports are performance-oriented, right? Like, you know you're supposed to get a goal, but I think we've done a lot more work in physical fitness and in sport to train athletes to be like, fine, yeah, you gotta get a goal, but the last thing you should do is focus on getting o- the goal, right? You're never gonna get a goal if you focus on getting the goal. I feel in gym class it's more about participation, it's more about belonging, it's more about community, it's more about process. Think about this, 'kay? Kids will practice a soccer drill every single morning at the crack of dawn, even if they have not scored a goal yet. They will do it. Why won't they practice their math skills? Why won't they do their math homework? I think it's because we've created something in gym class that is so much more rewarding than math class, and I'm really trying to bridge that disconnect.

Kallen Currie 21:23

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 21:24

How do we do it?

Kallen Currie 21:25

That's a good question.

Vanessa Vakharia 21:26

Right? Like, it's like- Yeah do you know what I mean, though? It's like at the end of the day, are, are, is anything that we teach that different? W-

Kallen Currie 21:31

No, there's similarities in all of it when you really think of it, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 21:34

We're, we're using content as a gateway to becoming a better, more skilled person. That's what I think all of us, we're using content as... But in, it's odd that in math it has become so contentious. It's like it is sh- performance is the only thing that matters. Grades are the only thing that matters. Like, people feel like they're pitted against each other, they're comparing one another, whereas in gym class you can kind of like, yes, sometimes it feels that way, but everything you're saying to us, like, you've spent so much time making sure that actually the thing kids get out of that gym class is resilience, perseverance, belonging, safety. Like, that, I don't hear you, n- never hear on this podcast, that we are recording live never hear have you once said, like, "And the way I get kids to score a goal is this," or, "The way I get our team to win..." I don't think you've said that once. Why are we always talking about test scores and you're not?

Kallen Currie 22:26

Exactly. I'm not too sure

Vanessa Vakharia 22:27

Answer me.

Kallen Currie 22:28

Repeat it, sorry.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:29

Repeat it again. UNO reverse. UNO reverse.

Kallen Currie 22:31

You got me there.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:32

But I do, I do Like, what you've shared today has been so valuable, because I think, like, we can These are things we can all do. You know?

Kallen Currie 22:39

Yep.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:39

And I also think for, in our schools, like, we, we don't need to be so pitted against one another. I think we can learn I feel like we're so siloed. I even find when sometimes I do talks, it's like, it's the elementary teachers versus the high school teachers, and it's like, what is up? Like, we're all as, as Jason, who was in my last session and is sitting front row center said- I asked him when he walked into the room, I said, "What do you teach?" And he said, "I teach students." And I was like, "Oof." Is that an UNO reverse? I don't understand the term. No, no. Oh, okay. It's good. No, it's not. Okay. It's a flex. Oh, it's a flex. Okay, yeah. Like, it's like we're all teaching students. We're all using different mediums to teach them, and we have this beautiful pipeline that we're all a part of. Yeah. But I think, and, you know, to quote our keynote from this morning, Dr. Grant, like, he, it is our systems, I think, that do create this tension, but I think we can, we can rally against them- Mm and kinda use a lot of what you've taught us to be like, what is first and foremost? And like you said, student safety is at the epicenter. Once they're safe, then we can talk about content, then we can talk about performance. But if a student doesn't feel safe, how can you- How can you even think about performance?

Kallen Currie 23:45

Right.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:46

Wait, but let's end on something you say instead of something I say. Okay.

Kallen Currie 23:49

Well, I just had a thought in my mind. Yes. Now, now I kinda lost it. Oh. As teachers, I think we need to be, like, more encouraging too. Like, I have a lot of kids, when they're leaving the gym, they're smiling, right? Had fun, all sweaty and whatnot. But, uh, they're like, "Ugh, we have math now," or, "We have science," or, you know? They're, like, nagging about what they have to go do. Okay. But as a teacher, phys ed teachers, encourage those kids, right? Encourage them to get to the next class and say, "What's wrong with math? I love math," you know?

Vanessa Vakharia 24:17

Okay.

Kallen Currie 24:17

Now, might be lying to them there, but

Vanessa Vakharia 24:19

No, but, but hold on. This is actually such a good point. I really want everyone to hear this. It, you don't have to lie, I don't think. But I think that idea of, yes, we are all in community. This idea of if you hear a kid being like, "Ugh, math. Ugh, science," you could say something like, "Hey, like, I used to feel that way, too."

Kallen Currie 24:38

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 24:38

You know what I mean? For sure. Something like, "I used to feel that way, too," or, "But math class is just..." You know what I would love the gym teachers to say? Because I actually always say this, is math class is another arena for you to practice your resilience or, like, drills or, like, the things you're using in gym.

Kallen Currie 24:54

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 24:54

Right? Like-

Kallen Currie 24:55

For sure. Yeah, strengthens you in different ways more than you could think of, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 24:58

Absolutely, and we're, we're actually teaching the same skills. Like, you're teaching... Think about it. What are you teaching? You're teaching kids how to overcome struggle, how to deal with failure and get back up and keep trying. That's what we're doing in math class.

Kallen Currie 25:10

Yeah, every class. Every class. Science, English, everything. Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 25:12

Yeah.

Kallen Currie 25:13

Yeah. Art, you mess something up, you're only getting better for the next project, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 25:17

Oh my God, this is so inspiring. Do you wanna do my keynote with me later? That could be fun. Honestly, thank you so, so, so much. For sure. Thanks for having me. That was such a great... Yeah, that was incredible.

Why do teachers keep showing up to work?

Vanessa Vakharia 25:26

Does anyone wanna ask a question? Does anyone have a question for Kallen? no. I w- Oh. No.

Audience question 25:30

Can I ask him a question?

Vanessa Vakharia 25:31

Okay, go for it.

Audience question 25:32

why do you do the, like, come to school and- Why do you do the things that you do? I know it's not the money

Vanessa Vakharia 25:38

Oh my God. Okay, so the question was, why do you come to school? Why do you do what you do? He then said, "I know it's not the money."

Kallen Currie 25:45

Just the reward, like we talked about earlier, seeing those kids' smiles, right? And, that click moment when they get it. And that's one thing that kind of steered me to becoming a phys ed teacher, is that I wasn't always teaching phys ed. I used to be a science teacher. but I was coaching sports at the time, lacrosse, hockey, all these different things. But that feeling of when I was coaching, watching kids, you know, that click moment, building camaraderie with one another, right? I kinda wanted to do that. Create love for sports, it's always been a big thing of mine. I've always played sports my whole life. It's the best feeling you could ever feel, honestly. For myself personally. It might be different for other people, but just seeing those kids' smiles and, um, creating that, uh, connection, too, with sports is a big thing. 'Cause sports are, you know, it's... Especially in indigenous communities, it's, it's a big, It can bridge you to different places. It can take you all over the place.

Vanessa Vakharia 26:35

Wow. Yeah. That, that's really powerful, 'cause you're, I mean, you're saying sports, and in my mind, like obviously for me it's not sports. Thank you for asking that question. It was a beautiful question. For me, it feels like math for me, because that was the thing, like, I overcame. And I think for a lot of us, that idea of like showing a kid they can do this thing they couldn't do before, whatever, so for you it was like sport, right? Like for me maybe it was math or maybe f- it was kind of art for me.

Kallen Currie 26:59

Yeah, it's different for everybody,

Vanessa Vakharia 26:59

right? It's every- Yeah whatever that thing is though. Again, like it's a gateway. Yeah. And f- that extra piece of like being like it can, it can take you to places, right? Like yes, sport can, and like, so can education. That's why this stuff is so important.

Kallen Currie 27:12

Yeah. And a big thing too, it's like it's not gonna happen overnight. It's not gonna happen in a month, a year. It's building that repetition, the relationships with your students, your, athletes, right? It's not gonna happen now, but could happen later. And when it does, it's probably gonna be the best feeling you've ever felt, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 27:28

Okay. I can't think of a better way to end. That was great. Yeah, it's good. Thank you so much. Thank you guys all so much for being here. Okay, let's clap for the audio, yeah. Yeah.

Kallen Currie 27:35

Yeah.

Vanessa Vakharia 27:36

Thank you guys so much.

Outro

Vanessa Vakharia 27:39

Oh my God, I loved that. Like, I was surprised by a lot of it, and I loved all of it and I keep coming back to this one idea Kallen said so casually, "You will find your role." Like, just like that. Like, imagine if every kid walked into math class knowing that. You might try something and totally fail at it. You might look around and feel like everyone else knows what they're doing and you somehow missed the memo, but none of that means that there isn't a place for you here in this classroom. That is such a different message from the one that so many of us got in math class. And I also love Kallen's reminder that this stuff doesn't happen overnight. You build it through repetition, through encouragement, through relationships, and through showing kids again and again that one bad attempt does not kick them off the team. So here's what I want you to think about this week. What would change if you treated your classroom more like a great team? Where could you create more belonging, more different roles, and more opportunities for kids to fail without feeling like they are failures? And obviously, please send this episode to the gym teacher, the coach, the math teacher, the science teacher, any teacher who understands that at the end of the day, we are all teaching kids how to struggle, recover, and try again. Because as Kallen said, it's every class. As always, thank you guys so much for listening, sharing, and being a part of the Math Therapy community. Math Therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vakharia, produced by David Kochberg, and the theme music is by our band, Goodnight Sunrise. Also, feel free to join our Facebook group using the link in the show notes, and I will see you next week