Tammy McMorrow

Tammy 0:03

I believe they all have this mathematical identity bank account, and it's my job to deposit and deposit and deposit and deposit, because when they leave me, I have no say in what practices they're going to experience. And the likelihood of them experiencing something that rubs up against their mathematical identity is unfortunately likely. So if that happens, and there's a withdrawal taken, my hope is that they won't be in the deficit because I have put so many deposits into that bank account.

Vanessa Vakharia 0:42

Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Math Therapy. Today I want you to imagine one of the most innovative math classrooms you've ever seen, like students standing up, thinking together, tracking their failures, talking about what's happening inside their brains, and learning that confusion isn't proof that they're bad at math. It's proof that their brains are growing. Now, imagine every student in this classroom is six years old, and the teacher creating all of this has been teaching grade one for 32 years. Well, today I am sharing my chat with that teacher. Tammy McMorrow is a first-grade teacher, a PMST finalist, and the host of the podcast, "Little Minds, Big Thinkers." What I love most about Tammy is that after more than three decades in the classroom, she still describes herself as unfinished. She's still trying new things. She owns her professional development, and she's not afraid to look at a practice she's used for years and say, "Wait, could I be doing this differently?" Because let's be real, guys, learning something new is incredibly humbling when you're already the experienced and celebrated teacher in the room. It's one thing to tell our students to take risks and make mistakes, but it's a whole other thing to check our own egos and do that ourselves. Tammy and I get into what it actually looks like to bring brain science into a grade one classroom, how she teaches six-year-olds to legit grow their brains through what she calls brain growers, like optimism, resilience, persistence, flexibility, and empathy, and whether being totally okay with failure and celebrating mistakes with confetti cannons can really work with kids who are still learning how to, like, tie their shoes. We talk about how kids don't need years of negative experiences before they start writing their math stories. They're already deciding what kind of math person they are in grade one, which means it's never too early to start shaping those stories, and it's never too late for us to rewrite our own. We get into all of this and so much more, so if you're already thinking of that veteran teacher who needs a reminder that 30 years of experience does not mean there's nothing left to discover, or that early years teacher who thinks brain science could never work with their students, pause and send them this episode right now so they can listen along with you. All right, let's get to it.

It's never too late to keep learning

Vanessa Vakharia 2:47

Okay, so I have to start by saying I think one of the coolest things about you is you've been teaching grade one for 32 years. Is that right? Like, over 30 years at this point.

Tammy 2:56

Yes,

Vanessa Vakharia 2:56

First of all, teaching grade one, don't know how you do it. That's already cool, but I think the cool, cool, cool part is it's been over three decades, and you are one of the teachers I always look up to in terms of, like, you are constantly revisiting your practice, incorporating new things, being inquisitive as to, like, what you're doing and how you can be doing them another way. Like, I just think it's so cool that after being in a classroom for 30 years, three decades, you are still consistently putting yourself in the learner seat. And I am, like, so curious, d- was this always the way you were, or was the- was there something that made you look at your practice and think, like, "I think I need to change things"?

Tammy 3:37

I think it's always m- been my plan to be better the next day than I was the day before. Uh, one of my mantras is that I'm in charge of my own professional development, so I've never been waiting for my school or my district or my state to say, "Hey, you need to start learning about this certain thing." I go after it, and it's like I can't retire because I still have so much to learn. I need to be better on behalf of my students. So I don't know when that point will be, but it's always been so important for me to do my best work and to keep iterating and figuring it out better. So

Vanessa Vakharia 4:14

I, I need to just sit on that sentence. I'm in charge of my own professional development. I think that's so powerful because, I mean, I, I don't know, I, I'm sure you're in the same conversations I'm in with everyone kind of like shitting on professional development and being like, "Oh my gosh, like, we're not giving teachers what they need," or like, "It's one and done PD," where, like, somebody comes in and then they are, they never revisit that concept again. Or, like, teachers are actually, aren't given enough professional development, right? Like, to actually develop professionally, you need consistency, you need all of this stuff. So I think it's so p- empowering to hear you say, "I'm in charge of my own professional development." But I also, like, imagine for so many educators that might feel so intimidating. Like, how do you know what to go after? There's so much out there. Like, how, how did you decide? How do you decide? Cause I see you posting- the K to 2 Facebook group is yours, right?

Tammy 5:08

Yes, I share it with some people, but I did start it, yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 5:11

So I, I noticed because I was like, Oh my God, here is this teacher who's really gotten, like, headfirst into Building Thinking Classrooms, love to see it, and is just really putting stuff out there, like creating this community. Like, yes, you're in charge of your own professional development, but you've also created this community where everybody gets to be in charge of their own and collaborate on professional development. like, since then also, though, you post about all sorts of things. So it's like it's not just building thinking classrooms, right? Like, you've done math therapy work, you've done st- like Liesl McConchie stuff. Like, I see you're really into brain growers now. We're gonna talk about all this stuff, by the way. But my point is, how do you choose? Like, with the plethora of stuff out there, can you guide me a little? If a teacher's listening and being like, "I wanna be in charge of my own professional development," like, how do they start?

Tammy 5:55

Right. that's a great question, especially for elementary teachers who we have to do everything.

Vanessa Vakharia 6:00

Yeah

Tammy 6:02

so choosing one thing can be overwhelming. For me, for most of my career, it was literacy that I was pursuing most. Then, it just kind of takes me down a rabbit hole. And once I start finding an author, like Vanessa Vakharia, you know, you find an author that you really enjoy, then, usually that author is gonna send you, "Now read this book," or, you know, "Take this workshop," or, or what have you. So it kinda depends on, I think, a person's passion, but it can also depend on is really, like, itching, right? What's itching right now in your practice, and what is seemingly that, like, I keep hitting a brick wall in that particular area. And for me, with math, my rabbit hole was Peter. Once I read Peter, then I couldn't stop reading other math books, and I'm still in that rabbit hole and, and thoroughly enjoying it. But that one, you know, I just saw somebody posted about this great book, and it changed their life, and I'm like, "Hey, I'm always up for a book that changes my life." So, I read it. But then I realized that for a lot of my m- my career as a math teacher, I had this idea of where I wanted my kids to be, so this was my problem of practice. I know I want them thinking. I know I want them problem-solving. I think I know what that looks like, but I don't know how to get there. So I think that was my impetus. Like, I had this vision, but I just didn't know how to, how to get to that place. So Peter's work was my bridge across this great crevice, that then helped me figure out, how do I get my kids to where I want them to be? So I guess for some teachers, it's, it's the passion, but for some teachers, it's the problem of practice maybe.

How to take charge of your own PD

Vanessa Vakharia 7:50

How can one direct their own professional development? Like, you started by getting the book. You read the book, right? We're gonna go with Building Thinking Classrooms. Hey, Peter. What's up? We're gonna go with Building Thinking Classrooms because that's what we're talking about. You got the book, you read it, and now you're hungering for more, and you're wanting resources, and you're wanting things to do. If somebody's out there and they've read this book, whatever it is for them, what's the next step they can take in terms of creating their own professional development plan?

Tammy 8:16

Uh, I think one of the things is just the mindset in general that I don't have to have all the answers to do this work. One of the quotes I read this summer, which I really loved, was, "Messy movement is better than perfect paralysis."

Vanessa Vakharia 8:30

Ooh.

Tammy 8:31

yeah, isn't that good?

Vanessa Vakharia 8:33

That's really taking done is better than perfect to like another level. Like

Tammy 8:39

So good.

Vanessa Vakharia 8:40

yeah, it's good

Tammy 8:41

I, I think along with that is just this, embracing ambiguity. and when I was getting my master's several years ago, I remember a professor saying, "A really good learner is able to embrace, embrace the ambiguity." So that's what a teacher needs to do. Read the book, embrace the ambiguity, jump right in, and know that they will figure it out as they go along. And then also, you know, the beauty of social media, which can also be a hot, hot mess.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Tammy 9:12

There are so many places out there, podcasts, groups on Facebook, workshops by Pam Harris. I mean, people are out there doing this work and providing service to those of us who wanna know more. Yeah. And so it just takes a little bit of digging, but if people are willing to just take that first step, the path will present itself.

Vanessa Vakharia 9:36

I love that, and I love-- I'm getting such a visual right now of that digging, you know, I remember hearing this quote by Elizabeth Gilbert, who I love so much. She is, like, my icon in the world. She wrote Eat Pray Love, like that's what people know her for, but she's so much more than that. Like, that was-- Whatever. And she had this qu- has this quote. She was talking about how, you know, she was doing this keynote, and somebody was like, you know, it was this whole keynote about finding your passion, like finding the thing you're passionate about, and she got a letter after the keynote from this woman who had been there, and she was like: "You know, your talk really depressed me because I don't know what my passion is. Like, I don't know what, like, my one thing is." And Elizabeth Gilbert was like, "I realize this whole time I should have been framing it as follow your curiosity. Right? Like, don't worry about finding your passion or the end point. What are you curious about right now? And I think that's such-- That's kind of what you're saying. You're kind of like, "Don't worry about the best professional development," or, like, the thing. It's like, what are you interested in, or what is bugging you right now? Just follow your curiosity, and the path will reveal itself, and think about it as, like, a treasure hunt. Like, what would you do, right? Like, you would be looking for clues, and you would go to the next place, and then you'd maybe, like, find a friend or a community talking about it. And so I love that piece of advice, and I think another thing that I really wanna ask, and I feel like you do this so naturally that you're gonna be like, "What?" But, like, you know, learning a new or potentially better way of doing something can be really humbling. And especially when you're, like, an experienced teacher. It almost feels like when you're a new teacher, and I use air quotes, that's when you're allowed, air quotes, to be revising and iterating and doing new things. But 30 years in, I feel like a lot of teachers, it's really hard ego-wise to be like, "You know what? I need to change things." How do you do that? Like, how do you reckon the two? Like, how do you not let it become an ego thing that you're like, "I just constantly am changing what I'm doing 'cause I think it can be better"?

Tammy 11:30

well, it is humbling to be a beginner, but how else do we get better unless we're willing to take that, that chance? and I always think it's about the kids in front of me. They deserve the best, and there is no such thing as the best because I'm always gonna be getting better. But in honor of them, I'm willing to swallow my pride and recognize the areas that I can get better at. It has to be a mindset, right?

Vanessa Vakharia 12:01

Yeah, I think it's a mindset and, well, and I think it's interesting 'cause you're like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" The vibe I get from you is that it really is a fun treasure hunt. It doesn't seem, and get me if, correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't seem like you're coming at this from a place of lack. It's not like you're b- like, "I need to get better because I suck." You're like, "I wanna get better because it's fun to learn new things and experiment and try." And so you're kind of coming at it with a very different energy which I often feel like professional development feels like... you know what, when you're in those sessions where it feels like you're being told you're doing something wrong and you need to change it? Versus being in a session where it's like loving and appreciating all the stuff you're doing. "Here are some other things you might wanna try."

Tammy 12:45

Right. Oh, it's... So that takes me to celebration, 'cause if I can celebrate the little things that are happening, happening already in my practice, then I'm more likely to take the next step to get better with the hard things. Because if I can stop and I can do some time traveling almost, like let's remember what I was able to do two months ago that now I, I'm so much better at, or even in my classroom, think about a month ago what my kids were doing then and now they can do this. That time traveling is so important for my mindset. Also, just stopping and celebrating how far I've come. You know, that all makes a huge difference in my ability to move forward even when it's hard.

Vanessa Vakharia 13:32

I do love that, and you know that I'm so big on celebration because I think we're always focusing on, like, again, coming at it from lack. And first of all, like, just in terms of motivation, no one's motivated when it feels like they're not going anywhere, right? So if you just constantly are focused on what you haven't done yet, it starts to feel like you're drowning in quicksand. Whereas if you're like, "Oh my God, the things I'm doing are paying off," maybe not in the exact way I wanted them to. Like, maybe not every single kid can add fractions now, but, like, literally last week, zero of them knew how to add fractions, and now five of them do. Like, that's so cool.

Tammy 14:07

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 14:08

yeah, I really like that.

How Tammy helps grow students' brains

Vanessa Vakharia 14:10

I would love to actually talk about some of your favorite things that you've brought into your practice, and I know that you're really into brain science right now. And I actually think it's really cool because I think I, I... We're so different. Like, I'm a high school teacher, right? So I have no, zero experience teaching grade one children. And what I think is so cool is that you're doing BTC with them, you're doing math therapy with them, you're doing brain science-related tasks and activities and pedagogy with them, and you're kind of showing us all that it's never too early to start with these innovative strategies. So can you tell me, I, I wanna talk about the brain growers, because I saw you post on Instagram a picture of these crowns. These c- so you, you had made these construction paper crowns, and you called them brain growers. Tell us about what that is.

Tammy 14:56

Yeah. So this is, comes from one of my favorite books by Christine Miraz and Christine Hertz, and it's called A Mindset for Learning. And I haven't read all the g- the growth mindset elementary books out there, but

Vanessa Vakharia 15:11

In the world? I don't think we should expect you to read all the growth mindset books in the world

Tammy 15:17

But having said that, I can't imagine one this better, honestly. it is so good. They have five brain growers, and they are optimism, persistence, flexibility, resilience, and empathy.

Vanessa Vakharia 15:30

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. I need to get this in my head. Optimism, resilience,

Tammy 15:36

Persistence, flexibility, and empathy

Vanessa Vakharia 15:41

empathy. Okay.

Tammy 15:42

Yeah. And so we talk about how we have the power to grow our brains, and we talk about neuroplasticity and all the things, and that these five brain growers are super powerful ways of doing that work. And so then based on the work that the book talks about, I've expanded it, and I spend a week on each brain grower in my classroom. And what we do is we unpack it. There's a really great definition that the authors have developed for each one, and a visual that goes with it. So, you know, helping the-- helping all of this stick in their brains better. And then I do each week playful, low-risk, non-academic ways of, experiencing and practicing those brain growers.

Vanessa Vakharia 16:32

Okay, wait

Tammy 16:33

have to worry about the content, the academics, they just play with it

Vanessa Vakharia 16:36

I love... Okay, hold on. I need to back up though, because I am taking notes. So these brain growers, what that means is these elements like empathy, resilience, optimism, are ways to literally grow your brain?

Tammy 16:50

Yes

Vanessa Vakharia 16:51

Okay, so they're ways to grow your brain. So, so, so that's number one, and you're kind of like, let me teach you guys how to experience these things." Like, how do we foster optimism? And then you spend the week.

Small ways to make big changes

Vanessa Vakharia 17:01

Now, I have a feel- like, I really am excited that we're talking about this because I think many of us would be like, "We don't have a week to spend doing this." But it's not like you're spending all day. Like, tell us what a week developing optimism looks like.

Tammy 17:13

I might introduce it with a video. So we watched a video of a gymnast who doesn't have legs, and she talks about not saying the word can't. And then I say, "Hey, we're gonna learn about this optimism. Watch this video and see if you can figure out what, what optimism might look like and sound like." So we would unpack it with that. And then I, I would introduce the-- we have a little poster that I created with the definition and the visual. then throughout the week, I'm going to be reading books that... You know, picture books are so great at teaching all of these things. so I'll read a book, probably most every day, and then we're gonna have like ten minutes, ten, fifteen minutes a day to explore that. Like one day, uh, we might make house, a house of cards. know how you build houses with decks of cards? That might be an activity. Or we might make domino trains, depending on the, the particular brain grower we're working on. Or one day, we saved Fred. I don't know if you've ever saved

Vanessa Vakharia 18:18

Who's Fred?

Tammy 18:19

Oh my goodness. Fred is so awesome. He's a gummy worm.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:23

Okay

Tammy 18:25

He's a literal gunni- gummy worm and, there's this little plastic cup, and he's, he's got a life preserver, which is his, um...

Vanessa Vakharia 18:35

What?

Tammy 18:37

I know this is awesome. No. There's this life preserver which is a lifesaver, a, but a gummy lifesaver.

Vanessa Vakharia 18:43

God. Okay

Tammy 18:45

Okay. And then the kids get pa- two paper clips, and his boat is the, this plastic cup. So he's out on the ocean, and he gets turned upside down. And we've got to save Fred because the life preserver is under the boat 'cause the boat tipped over,

Vanessa Vakharia 19:00

I'm dying

Tammy 19:01

And you gotta get, using only the paper clips, you've got to get Fred inside of the life preserver, and you can't touch him with your fingers.

Vanessa Vakharia 19:11

This is, uh, this sounds very hard. This, a lot of dexterity involved. Okay, so now, okay, can you tell, now tell me how these activities tie into the optimism brain grower

Tammy 19:23

Well, not all of those are with optimism. They might, that m- one might work

Vanessa Vakharia 19:27

Oh, resilience. Oh, I see what you mean. Oh. Okay, but give me one, give me one optimism one.

Tammy 19:33

Oh, let's see. What did we do with optimism? So there are these little rubber disks. these plastic kind of rubbery disks, and each kid gets two,

Vanessa Vakharia 19:44

Okay

Tammy 19:45

they- they- We go outside, and they have to move themselves from one spot another spot stepping on the disks. So this optimism like, "Oh, I can try. I've never done this before, but I'm gonna try this anyways." So they have to move across the playground

Vanessa Vakharia 20:01

I love the elementary teachers. Like, I would just never think of this stuff. Like, a gummy worm with a gummy lifesaver life jacket. Like this, yes. Yes, yes, bring

Tammy 20:12

I didn't make that up, but my, now that I have this lens of what brain growers are, whenever I see these little kinds of challenges on social media, I'm like, "Oh, that would be great for resilience. Oh, and that would be great for flexibility.

Vanessa Vakharia 20:24

Oh my God. So you're doing basically these low-stakes activities in order to foster these, what we call brain growers, which are all, by the way, for everyone listening, skills in math class. They are all math skills. They're all math-adjacent skills. They are all skills that will help students be optimistic when tackling a problem that they can't solve, be resilient when they need to keep going, feel empathetic enough to collaborate with one another and listen to each other and congratulate one another on their thinking. I can't remember the other ones, but the, my, my point being that in these short little 10-minute bursts here or 10-minute bursts there, we are actually introducing these students to these skills that will then take them where we want them to go in our math classrooms.

Tammy 21:09

Right. Because then when we get into the content, they have context. They've, they've experienced these before. They have the language to describe it, yeah, it makes a world of difference. So it's very much worth the time. And speaking of language, can I share a couple quotes from my kids?

Vanessa Vakharia 21:28

I would love to hear some quotes

Tammy 21:30

I hear one, one day they were working on building the house of cards, which is hard. That's a really difficult skill for, for little people. And I heard one boy say, "Persistence and optimism, my two new favorite things." He says, "It's hard, and it's good."

Vanessa Vakharia 21:47

Oh my God, how, like how old is this little cutie? Like six, seven?

Tammy 21:51

he's 6!

Vanessa Vakharia 21:51

Oh my God

Tammy 21:53

And then on another day, one of my girls was asking this boy, she says, "What's the opposite of resilience?" And she names him, and he says, "I don't know, but the opposite of optimism is pessistimism."

Vanessa Vakharia 22:08

Stop! Oh my God. Oh my God. So now you also said that you make these crowns because when they need to borrow, what... Like, tell me what you do with the actual physical crowns. I love this

Tammy 22:21

We make one crown the kids help me write the word, whatever it is, optimism. They help me. We share the pen and they write it. And then, that crown is just available during other times of the day. Like, if anyone is feeling like they need a little bit more resilience, they can go and put the crown on. And I, I say, "You are the kings and queens of optimism now, so you have a crown to wear when you need it." And honestly, they do. They, they don't always, but sometimes I, I might even offer it. "Do you feel like you need some flexibility right now? You can go get the crown." And they will, and they'll put that thing on.

Vanessa Vakharia 22:58

I absolutely love this.

Redefining failure

Vanessa Vakharia 23:00

Okay, another idea that I know you've told me about and I wanna hear more about is your work you're doing around failure. Tell me about that.

Tammy 23:08

Yeah. So, couple things. Dr. Becky Kennedy is the author of Good Inside, and she also has a great Instagram, she talks about the learning space, and she calls it, it's kind of like the learning pit, but I honestly like the word space a little bit better. So she talks about the, the distance between not knowing and knowing.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:32

Okay

Tammy 23:33

And if people could see me, I'm making this crazy kind of rollercoaster.

Vanessa Vakharia 23:37

a sign wave, everyone.

Tammy 23:38

Yeah, there you go. Oh, thank you for describing that. And, and we might think, "Oh, I'm- I've almost got it. Oh, I'm never gonna get this. This is too hard. Well, maybe I know what I'm doing. No." And it's just like this wild ride, the distance between not knowing and knowing. And Dr. Becky Kennedy says that the one emotion we feel in that learning space is frustration. And so when we feel frustrated, it's not because we're bad at it, it's because we're new at it, and we're learning something. So it's a really a good sign, even though it's so hard. And so my job as the, the teacher in the room is to help kids not exit the learning space. That doesn't mean that we don't take a break or we ask for help. There are strategies we can use when we're in the learning space. Exiting it is gonna prevent us from getting to that end, which feels so rewarding. So when kids are failing, that is a sign. Like, "Oh, you were in the learning space today. Congratulations." And so one day, when my kids were at what I call thinking boards, which Peter uses in his work, Well, I'm gonna back up a little bit. I learned a strategy from a teacher named Laura Weiss, and she will capture the amazing things kids are saying at their boards and actually write their words down. And it just I love how it honors their work, it also, those words become contagious because we highlight them during consolidation. so I will jot down words that kids are saying to each other about, "Oh, you did such a good job." Or, or they might say, "Let's start over," or things like that. I will capture those on their boards and literally write them down. Well, I have a couple kids who will do that for themselves. So they will actually write down the words instead of me capturing them. So this one group writes, "Let's start over," on their board, and they put a box around it. And it was r- they were doing one of these tasks that's kind of puzzle-ish. It's super open, but there's only one kind of right answer, and it takes a lot of iterating to get to the right answer. So a lot of starting over. And they were keeping tallies of their failures. And I, I walked past, and I was like, "What are they doing?" So I kinda, I nudge in. It's like, talk to me about what what you're doing right here. What are you doing?" And they said, "We're keeping track of our failures." And that it was no big deal for them. This was not a bad thing. There was no bad

Vanessa Vakharia 26:12

Why were they doing that?

Tammy 26:14

I don't, I don't know. They were just gonna keep track how many times they fail before they got the answer, and they honestly never did get the answer, and they were fine with that. And, in fact, I think they only had three tallies, I think their, their math was wrong. If they had really been keeping track, it'd probably been double that. But at the end of the task, when we, when I did my consolidation, we celebrated their failures and that they were keeping track of them. I thought that was the coolest.

Vanessa Vakharia 26:44

That is the coolest. G- okay, so also, I just wanna clarify, you said when they were at the thinking boards, and by thinking boards, just for anyone who doesn't know what that is, you're just talking about non-permanent vertical surfaces.

Tammy 26:57

Yep.

Vanessa Vakharia 26:58

Are we calling them thinking boards now? Is this official?

Tammy 27:01

No, this is just what I've always

Vanessa Vakharia 27:02

Okay, fine. Okay, got it, got it. Just che- just checking to see if the

Tammy 27:05

yeah, I needed a name and that's what I've always called

Vanessa Vakharia 27:07

I love it. I love a thinking board. Okay, so thinking boards. So when you do the consolidation, what you're talking about there is when you bring the class together to kind of recap what's gone on.

Celebrating mistakes

Vanessa Vakharia 27:17

Okay, so tell me how you celebrated their failures. What did you do? What's, what's a good way for us to celebrate stuff like that?

Tammy 27:24

Well, just a couple days ago we did a confetti cannon,

Vanessa Vakharia 27:29

No, you didn't

Tammy 27:31

Of course, I still have confetti cannons. We did it. They love it. In fact, cleaning up the confetti cannon is probably more fun than actually, you know, popping it for

Vanessa Vakharia 27:40

do you wanna come on tour with us? Because cleaning up the confetti cannon is not our favorite part when we shoot it during a show.

Tammy 27:47

some first graders along

Vanessa Vakharia 27:48

Yeah.

Tammy 27:49

love that part. another one that I just invented, just came to me in the moment, I sent them on a victory lap around the room.

Vanessa Vakharia 27:57

What does that mean? I love it. How do we do it?

Tammy 27:59

They just walked around the room

Vanessa Vakharia 28:00

Oh my God

Tammy 28:01

They did a victory lap, they thought that was the coolest thing ever. They're, they were beaming

Vanessa Vakharia 28:05

That is so funny because a victory lap is actually when you stay in school for a whole extra y- year because you failed the year before.

Tammy 28:14

No,

Vanessa Vakharia 28:15

Did you know that?

Tammy 28:17

No

Vanessa Vakharia 28:17

a victory lap is. So this

Tammy 28:20

it means a really fun thing in first grade

Vanessa Vakharia 28:22

That is so funny. I love this so much. Like, these are all, like, just all these things you're bringing up are these elements that we can be incorporating into our practice, right? Regardless of how you choose to teach content, we can always find ways to celebrate. I love the idea of walking around the room and just noticing student language. You don't have to interrupt in the moment, but writing down little things students are saying, and at the end, you know, recapping and being like, "Hey, here are some of the stuff I heard around the room." It's a great way to value what your students are doing, regardless of whether they get the right answer to something or not, right? Just being like, "I loved how so-and-so was supporting this person," and like, "I loved this language." Okay, give us something else. What's, what's your, what's your favorite thing right now, your new thing that you're like, "Oof, I'm obsessed with this"?

Tammy 29:08

Oh, my favorite thing can I share another celebration?

Vanessa Vakharia 29:11

Of course

Tammy 29:12

So, we walked to each thinking board and we went, "Ooh, ah." Like they were fireworks.

Vanessa Vakharia 29:21

I love that. Again, simple. Simple. You know, and it's funny, it's like you- there's a lot of research on this where, you know, your facial expression or your energy is actually contagious, right? Like, p- polyvagal theory tells us we've evolved to co-regulate. Our energy literally is contagious. We are often looking to other people's faces as cues for how we should react or respond. So simply the act of being like, "Ooh, ah," and acting excited really does It is contagious, right? It lifts up the energy in the room. It helps people feel really, really good, and nothing is really required. It's just a fun, silly thing to do. So I actually I'm all for celebrating, more celebrating, even if it's a bit like... And I know, guys, I know Tammy's in grade 1, and a lot of you are like, "Okay, this is not gonna fly with my grade 11 class." It is. It is going to. Like, I promise you, like, I am a high school girly. Like, I mostly work with high school students, and they love this shit. Actually, Tammy, you will love this. David and I, our band went on tour last week, and we visited a few high schools to do workshops with them, and in one of them I did, like, a BTC-style workshop but for songwriting. So, like, I used some elements of building thinking classrooms in helping the class. I put them into random groups, like, in getting them to co-write a song, which is, like, a very vulnerable thing to do, especially the second week of school when kids don't even know each other yet. And it's like maybe there was a little eye roll, maybe there was a little cringe. Like, there was a l- definitely a lot of resistance. But walking around the room, finding things to compliment kids on, being like, "Oh, I love that line," or, "I love how-- Oh, my God, I love that you guys just worked together on that." These little things, you can see them opening up, right? Like, everyone loves a specific compliment. Everyone loves to be celebrated. So if you can find ways to do that, like, you are going to win your students over, even if it's not super visible in the first place. Like, that idea of making crowns and being like, "Guys, who needs to wear the optimism brain grower today?" I promise that will work on a 16-year-old. It honestly will. Like, it will, right? Like, walking around and oohing and aahing, like, people will laugh. And, like, it is all about bringing some levity and some good vibes into what can be a stressful sit- situation

Tammy 31:37

It reminds me of Liesl McConchie who says we need to be dopamine dre- dealers. So those are easy, easy ways to deal out some dopamine.

Vanessa Vakharia 31:47

100%.

Tammy 31:49

Yeah

Vanessa Vakharia 31:50

We often talk about joy in math class, and I do feel like sometimes we're, we're almost, like, going at it the hardest way. Like, we're like, we're trying to make, like, a quadratic formula problem, like, joyful. You know what I mean? And it's like, I'm not saying don't try to do that. Like, 100% do, but there are all of these ways to create opportunities for joyful experiences around the math problem, right? Or, like, in other elements of the math problem that don't require you to rewrite the problem. And just like you're mentioning here, all of the things Tammy just mentioned are ways to do that, right? So you don't have to rewrite every single question. You don't have to make every single question relevant and real life. You don't Like, w- we get that you have curriculum that you're often contending with, but creating these opportunities for dopamine being raised around them, we can, we can all do that.

Tammy 32:45

Yeah. It reminds me of just if with my first graders, trying to get them into that positive state of mind that you talk about, that Liesl about, could be I put my task in a box, and I have a st- Post-It note that says, "Do not open until 1 o'clock" right? Just that anticipation and that curiosity. Little moves like that are, are going to get them in the right state of mind so they can access the content better.

Vanessa Vakharia 33:14

I love that, and I think i- it's funny, like, just talking to you, how you're like, "Ooh, I've got one. Oh, we do this. Oh, these rubber discs. Oh, this gummy where..." Like, I'm like, what? Like, and I, I do think it's funny, like, we talk so much about creativity in math class, but the creativity is often in the way we just present something, or in, like, the, the, you know, the, the flourish of the way we write something down, or like you just said, the p- surprise element, or handing out stickers, or, you know, like creating a victory lap or an ooh and ahh situation. Really just trying shit out. Try random stuff out, see what makes them smile, and then iterate on it, and it doesn't have to be perfect, and there's no one right way. Like Tammy, you just mentioned, like you're on Instagram and you're seeing these little challenges, and you're like, "Ooh, maybe I'll try that as a brain grower." I think that idea of, like, being interdisciplinary, think about the things you enjoy as an educator. What are the things you love doing? What are the things that make you happy? What are the elements of those things you can bring into your classroom?

Tammy 34:14

Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause the, a brain is a brain, right? We know things about the brain and how the brain functions, whether you're six or you're 55, there are a lot of similarities between the two.

Vanessa Vakharia 34:26

Yeah, uh, 100%. A brain is a brain.

Make deposits to your student's Math Identity Bank Account

Vanessa Vakharia 34:29

There are some core human emotions that we all share, you know? And there are some core things that always make people feel good, like laughter, right? Like, how can you create a moment of laughter? How can, you know, these types of things. So interestingly, you're, you're dealing with these young, young kids, and we often think s- that, that students need to have years of negative experiences before they develop a math story, right? Yeah. I, I would love to hear a little bit about that. Like, are you seeing students at six or seven years old that already have anxiety around math?

Tammy 34:58

Well, I'm so glad you brought this up because this has been such a passion of mine for the last few years, and you have- definitely your work has contributed to that, and so has Liesl McConchie. In my work, I haven't seen too many kids at the age of six showing anxiety. But that doesn't mean that it's not on the inside, right? Maybe I just can't see it yet. I can think of a girl about four years ago when I introduced my thinking boards for the first time, she's in tears. But by the end of the year, she was like, literally, she was rubbing her hands together and say, "Bring it on, Miss McMorrow." I remember her saying that, right? So, so it is there. And I know your research has said by the age of six, fifty percent of, of our kids are already thinking that. even if I don't see evidence of it, in my opinion, I cannot overdo how much I support their math stories. I can't overdo it. It's literally impossible to overdo it. And like Liesl says, the emotional relationships with math is not an extra thing. It is the thing. It's the plate. She calls it the plate upon which, you know, the content is served. So I'm gonna go all out when it comes to supporting their em- emotional relationships with math, even though they're only six. And here's one of the things that I have been saying for a while, that I believe they all have this mathematical identity bank account, so to speak. And it's my job to deposit and deposit and deposit and deposit, because when they leave me, I have no say in what practices they're going to experience. And the likelihood of them experiencing something that rubs up against their mathematical identity is unfortunately likely. So if that happens, and there's a withdrawal taken, my hope is that they won't be in the deficit because I have put so many deposits into that bank account.

Vanessa Vakharia 37:04

I love that. Did you make that up?

Tammy 37:08

I made that up.

Vanessa Vakharia 37:09

I am obsessed with that. I am obsessed with that. I really, really love that, and I just, I also just love the idea of, like, you cannot overdo it. Like, it's interesting, like, when I do this work with Math Therapy, right, like, there's often this question of like, "Well, my students are so young. Like, they probably don't have any, like, math trauma." And I'm like, "First of all, it doesn't even matter." Right? Like, it doesn't matter. We don't even need to ask the question because Robert Kaplinsky, he's like, loves metaphors, and he has this metaphor where he talks about, like, a waiter, at the beginning of a meal, every glass on your table, like, a waiter comes and will fill up every glass, right? Like, later on, like, the waiter will come, and they'll be like, "Do you want more water?" But, like, they usually start by placing a full bottle on the table or just filling up every glass. The, if you want water or if you don't, the water is there. It's not harming anyone to have the water there, and maybe at some point during dinner you get thirsty, and there it is. You can just have a sip. And this is what I always say is if we just approach our classrooms with the idea that, hey, there might be some kids in this class that need some extra care because they've had a negative experience with math, and we're here to help them rewrite and revise and change their narrative by, like, you know, creating more positive experiences to water down that negative experience that is lodged in there. If we just approach the entire class like that, everyone wins. There is nothing bad that can happen from it, right? Whereas w- if we go in there assuming everyone's fine, they're tough as nails, like who the fuck cares? Like, let's do whatever. It's like, chances are there's gonna be a loss experienced by not j-just the kids that already have had a negative experience with math, but now you're creating more negative experiences. Like, nothing bad com- from, can come from it, right? So, like, I love the way you're putting it too. It's like, it, it's a piggy bank. Like, you're just trying to deposit and deposit and deposit. You don't wanna withdraw. Like, why do you wanna withdraw? And also, you're right. It kinda sucks to be like, "All right, I'm kinda prepping for the fact that a withdrawal will likely be taken, maybe not." And also, I'd like to say something else. Sometimes we do make a withdrawal without meaning to, right? Like, we are, we're all well-intentioned, and we all, none of them, no one's trying to create a negative math experience. But maybe you make an off comment or something happens. Like, we can't help it, right? Like, so the more you can deposit when that does happen, that withdrawal is stacked up against, you know, 200 days of deposits and hopefully doesn't make much of a dent in the wallet. I'm loving this analogy. I'm not... I can't stop. It's really good.

Tammy 39:36

Well, yes. Well, and, and some- sometimes I think some people might even rely on, let's say, BTC. I think BTC nurtures identities emo- and emotional relationships with math, but I don't wanna rely on that. I, I s- still feel like I can go beyond that and make intentional moves that s- that support the work even more. I don't wanna just cross my fingers or leave it to happenstance. So I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go above and beyond even those practices that I think really are top-notch when it comes to this work.

Vanessa Vakharia 40:12

Give me an example of what that might mean.

Tammy 40:15

So,

"Where's the math in that?"

Tammy 40:16

like, we, we just finished doing a where's the math photo challenge. So I spent, I spent a week a picture each day of myself something I'm passionate about, and I would share the picture and say, "Where's the math?" And they all have to find the math. And by the end of the week, I've shared, like, five pictures, and they were so good at finding where all the math was, even beyond what, you know, we would, as adults, maybe even lo- find the math. And then I challenged, the families to take a picture of their child doing something that they're passionate about, and that there's math involved. So they're not doing math, but there's math there. And they send it to me, print it off, and the kiddo shows the picture to the, the class and says, "Where's the math?" Here's what they're, they're experiencing. Math is relevant, has everything to do with what I'm passionate about. Math is useful. Math helps me make sense of the world. And those pictures are up on the bulletin board. they're gonna stay up all year long. That's one thing I will do. Another one I'm, I'm gonna do soon is called, um, Mystery Mathematicians.

Vanessa Vakharia 41:29

What?

Tammy 41:30

it's similar to, the reading one where you might have a mystery reader come in. I don't know if you've

Vanessa Vakharia 41:37

Wait, what? What is this? What do you mean?

Tammy 41:39

A, a mystery reader is when, like, a family member will be invited in to come read to the class, and it's a mystery. We don't know who's coming, so there's some clues that we give about who that person might be. And then they come, and they read. So that's called mystery readers. But this is mystery mathematicians,

Vanessa Vakharia 41:57

I need to go back to elementary school? This sounds so fun.

Tammy 42:01

Over. Yes. Come on over. So, I invite the grown-ups come at some time in the year. It's not all the same time. they come, and they share how they use math in their everyday life. like last year, I had a dad come in who's a plumber, and he brought... And

Vanessa Vakharia 42:21

Oh my God

Tammy 42:23

visuals or, or, like, something consumable they can give to the kiddos. He brought all these little tiny measurement tapes and gave them to the

Vanessa Vakharia 42:33

No

Tammy 42:34

I had a mom who came in, and, she made, smoothies in front of them, and

Vanessa Vakharia 42:40

I'm crying.

Tammy 42:41

the

Vanessa Vakharia 42:41

That's... I love this

Tammy 42:44

drink the f- drink the smoothies. I had, like, five or six parents come in, and they each... or just grown-ups. They, they each shared something that, some way that they use math in their everyday life. And the kids are experiencing this, right? They're seeing, they're seeing themselves in the things that these, these grown-ups are sharing, and they're, they're experiencing, you know, just how math is so useful and relevant. So

Vanessa Vakharia 43:10

I'm obsessed with this. I want to come to your class. Like, this sound- I want to be a mystery mathematician. Oh my God, this sounds so fun. Oh my God, like, I love this. You have just left us with j- a jam-packed episode here of so many things to try, and I, I love what you just said there. You're like, "I'm doing BTC, but I'm also doing other stuff," other stuff that you're curious about, it kind of just seems like, right? Like, stuff that you find is cool, and, like, I hope everyone listening is just... First of all, I'm so inspired by you, and, like, my mind is now going and, like, thinking about all these cr- these creative things I want to do. And I love that you're just trying it out, seeing what works, and going from there, and I think that is such a great message to send to everyone who's listening. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't... It- just, just do something. Just try anything. You know, I always say, like, the things you're doing right now are getting you the results you're getting right now. If you want anything different to happen, you've got to try something different. It doesn't matter what it is. You just have to try something different. If you try something different, something different will happen.

Tammy 44:10

Yeah. Messy movement

Vanessa Vakharia 44:12

Messy movement, better than paralysis? Perfect paralysis. This is kind of... This is... I don't know. This is kind of weird.

Q1

Vanessa Vakharia 44:19

Okay, Tammy, we gotta wrap up. I could talk to you for hours. I can't wait to hang out in real life soon. I have two questions for you, 30 seconds to answer each one.

Tammy 44:28

Oh, okay

Vanessa Vakharia 44:29

got this. The first one is, if you could change one thing about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?

Tammy 44:35

Only have 30 seconds. That's

Vanessa Vakharia 44:36

It's okay. Whatever. This, you're not actually being timed. No one's timing you.

Tammy 44:39

That's good. Um, if I could change one thing, I'd want the math to be owned by the kids and not by the teacher,

Vanessa Vakharia 44:49

What does that mean? What does that mean?

Tammy 44:52

Like, we have to put them in the driver's seat instead of I'm, I'm gonna teach you, now you listen and repeat what I just said 20 more times.

Vanessa Vakharia 45:01

Yeah

Tammy 45:02

want them thinking, I want them messy, I want them grappling, so I'm gonna put them in the driver's seat.

Vanessa Vakharia 45:08

I love that.

Q2

Vanessa Vakharia 45:09

Okay, and finally, if someone was like, "Oh man, your class sounds so cool. I love it, but like, I- there's no way I'd be able to do it because I'm just not a math person," what would you say?

Tammy 45:20

Another one. um, there's no such thing as a math person, is what I would say. And like, if I can do this work then you can, is kinda what I feel. Because I grew up mimicking, That was the way I was taught. And I would also say, if you don't feel like a math person, it's not your fault. There's nothing wrong with you. It's just that we as teachers didn't find the right way to teach you. So anyone can do this.

Vanessa Vakharia 45:48

Thank

Outro

Vanessa Vakharia 45:49

you so much. It's such an honor having you on. This was so amazing. You are just such an inspiration, and I literally am going to go buy myself gummy worms and gummy Life Savers and make myself my own Band of Freds

Tammy 46:03

Let me know how that goes because it is not an easy thing to do. It'll build resilience, that's for sure.

Vanessa Vakharia 46:09

Thank you so much, Tammy. You're the best, and I can't wait to meet you IRL okay, bye.

Tammy 46:14

Bye

Vanessa Vakharia 46:18

what an inspiration, what a legend, what a reminder that it is never too late to learn something new, that we are not the main character of our classrooms, our students are. We are ego-driven beings. It's unavoidable. But next time our ego is feeling a little bruisy, let's all try to channel our inner Tammy, dust off the ugh, and just get to the business of learning something new. In the end, we are in charge of our own professional development. We can learn to learn something new whenever we want, and there's a community of educators out there doing just that who want to help you. So what are you feeling curious about these days? Text the podcast by hitting the link in your show notes and tell me. Let's crowdsource curiosity. I wanna know what you're thinking about and maybe learning about next, and maybe we can find some common patterns and themes actually, maybe we can do a mailbag episode on what you're curious about and what you're learning. So honestly, text the podcast. What are you curious about? What do you want to learn more about? What are you learning about these days? Math Therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vakharia, produced by David Kochberg, and the theme music is by our band, Goodnight Sunrise. As always, thank you guys so much for listening, sharing, and being a part of the community. If you want more Math Therapy, join our Facebook group. We have over 500 amazing members. Just hit the link in the show notes to join, and see you next week.