Vanessa Vakharia  0:02  
Hi, I'm Vanessa Vakharia, aka, The Math Guru. And you're listening to math therapy, a podcast that helps guests work through their math traumas one problem at a time. When I was in grade 11, I failed math not once, but twice, because I was told that I just wasn't a math person. Thanks to a math intervention in the form of an amazing teacher. I ended up scoring 99% in grade 12 math. And now I run the math guru, my very own math tutoring studio in Toronto. I started Math Therapy to take this conversation global, and I like to think of it as not just a podcast, but a movement. Whether you think you're a math person or not, you're about to find out that math people don't actually exist; but the scars that math class left on many of us definitely do. Oh, and don't worry, no calculators or actual math were involved in the making of this podcast.

Vanessa Vakharia  0:50  
Hello, and welcome to Math Therapy's first ever festive special ever in the history of all time, I am freaking out! Okay. I'm breaking the rules, because math therapy is actually a seasonal podcast and season three isn't technically coming out until 2021. But this interview was so good that we had to release it, like, this second. So if you follow me on Instagram, you know just how obsessed I am with not only Christmas movies in general, but one Christmas movie in particular. And that movie, my friends is none other than jingle jangle. If you haven't seen it yet. Literally. Stop listening to my voice right now. Head over to Netflix and watch it, trust me. Seriously, right after I saw the movie last week, I messaged our producer Sabina and incoherently through a stream of literal tears was like, Oh my god, Sabina - this movie is about a black girl who saves Christmas ... with MATH. Oh my god, it's happening. Hollywood is finally getting the memo that we need cool math movies that inspire young girls. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god! The next thing I know, Sabina was like: I emailed Jingle Jangle. They said yes, they're coming on our pod. I died. So before I totally lose my mind because you will hear plenty of that in the actual interview, let me introduce my not one but two amazing guests, aka the tag team behind the Christmas miracle that is Jingle Jangle: writer and director David E. Talbert and producer Lyn Sisson-Talbert. 

Vanessa Vakharia  2:12  
Oh my God, David and Lyn - welcome to the podcast!

David E. Talbert  2:16  
Hey, thanks for having us!

Vanessa Vakharia  2:18  
Okay, so I want to just start by telling you how I found out about this movie. So I was chilling, I was listening to CBC, I heard you being interviewed by Tom Power. And first of all, I'm like, obsessed with Christmas. Like it is like my season. It starts November 1st for me, like it's a whole thing. And all I remember about the interview really, is that David was watching Christmas movies with this kid. And the kid never saw himself represented. So he wanted to make this movie. And I was like, Oh, that sounds really nice. I'm all about representation. But ... then I put on the movie. And I'm like, Oh my god, it is about like ... NOWHERE was it mentioned that it was about like a young black girl who's low-key a math genius that saves Christmas by finding the square root of impossible, and I freaked out.  So because I'm like, literally freaking out constantly about this and can't even describe it, can we just start by you like, tell us what the movie's about? Like if you were gonna tell our listeners what the movies about, what would you say?

David E. Talbert  3:17  
I'd say it's about an inventor named Jeronicus Jangle, the greatest inventor and all the land. And he was betrayed by his apprentice so he lost his Mojo and he's become, he stopped believing in himself or any of his inventions anymore. And his granddaughter from across town come to see him little does he know, she's an inventor herself and a genius and a scientist and all of that. And the movie's about can she help her grandfather find his Mojo again, so that everything starts working again?

Vanessa Vakharia  3:55  
Oh my god. Oh my god, you're literally quoting one of the Greatest Songs of All Time, by the way. Okay, and the other thing I think everyone should know is it's a musical because actually, guys, I'll be honest, like, I'm super into musicals, but I'm not into even musical movies. Like I was like, Oh, am I gonna get into it? Oh, I was into it. Like I was into it. So okay, one of the craziest things to me about the movie. You know, I do a lot of research about representation with math in movies. And every math movie pretty much is like super boring and dry. And it's like some white dude who's like a genius and then he goes crazy because he's like, oh my god too smart and can't have a life. But you made this movie about this like happy go lucky, like magical, wondrous film that involved math. And like, what possibly gave you the idea to combine math into a Christmas movie?  Where did that come from for you?

David E. Talbert  4:42  
Well, for me, it was - I love math, first of all, you know. I like, I count in my head, I don't really write things down, I like it a lot. But it started because I flunked in college, math and Business Economics twice and then I came back later and got an A and both of them because I understood it. And so, I like the whimsy of films like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Willy Wonka and Mary Poppins. And so I came up with this thing, the square root of the second derivative of sensational, the circumference of spectacular, and the square root of impossible, these formulas. And then Lyn really took them to heart and got a hold of them and made this whole book series. And she really latched on to the square root of possible and so that became her kind of formula for what she does.

Vanessa Vakharia  5:40  
Okay, like, it is so crazy, because Christmas is about, like if I could think about joy and wonder Christmas is what comes to mind. Like it's the most joyous of joys and like the most wondrous of wonders, but the crazy thing is so is math, but it never gets positioned that way, math is like the most boring thing in school whenever, like no one thinks of it like this. So you guys have done what I consider to be like, Okay, wow, this is so cheesy, but it is like a Christmas miracle! You have managed to fuse the two together, like the Christmas magic has somehow contagiously caught on to math through this film. Do you guys like realize what an impact this is gonna have? What kind of impact did you want to have? And are you seeing that maybe like, you didn't realize how big of a deal this is?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  6:26  
For me, as he was saying, I wanted to find my square root of possible. And I want other people to figure out what is that formula for them? What is the formula for success? Be it adults, kids, you name it? And what's our square root of possible? So that's really what that whole theme behind it is, this adding the magic to it. And I felt like we need to add the arts into STEM. So it's like, as they call it STEAM, where you add the arts into STEM education. And also I wanted girls to feel good about being smart, you know, because it is magic. It's magical. And all of these girls out there, you just listen to anything that journey's character says in her songs. And when she starts, you know, moving around with that ball of magic and her formulas, and they just come to life, it makes it just way more exciting. And we have a seven year old son, and we have to find ways to make things enticing and exciting and we want to do it this way, and if we want to see it and it makes us happy and magical and feel good, it's gonna make him want to do it in turn, and other children want to do it.

Vanessa Vakharia  7:46  
Yeah. 100%. And one of the things I loved about it, like when I'm trying to explain it to people, I'm like, Guys, you don't understand. It's about an inventor, like think about how cool it is to be an inventor! It's almost like, okay, in this day and age, no one understands that, right? Like, everyone's making new apps and doing this and that. But I love how simple it was that like the gizmos and the gadgets and the fact that he was just making something out of nothing became so magical. And I like that you took that idea, and made it tangible and magical. And I think, like I literally get goosebumps when I'm talking about this because that is what is missing literally from education from the classroom. You're so right, because I still think it's so crazy that you chose to go this route because normally the two don't meet - Lyn, do you have any specific experiences with math where you felt that way?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  8:35  
So my father was an optometrist. He was actually one of the first black optometrists licensed in the state of Nevada, my mother trained to be a nurse. She's actually a math genius in her own right. And my father said, you know, before he passed that, she should have been the doctor in the family truthfully. So I grew up around the sciences, and I grew up around seeing science work, and also because my father was so great with people and it mattered for him to heal people with sciences, there was an affinity for that and what it did and what it meant. And at the same time, my nephew is an engineer, he does a lot of coding, and he actually consulted on creating some of the formulas that you see in the film, to make sure that they made mathematical sense as well.

Vanessa Vakharia  9:30  
I was looking through the book yesterday being like, hold on (laughing)

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  9:34  
Yeah, you're like, does this go together? You know. 

Vanessa Vakharia  9:36  
I was, I was (laughing)

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  9:38  
But so for us, you know, I grew up around the people that were into the sciences, into engineering into, you know, math in general. And so I always had a love for it. I did not have that gift, but I felt like in the space of figuring things out for me, if I could create a formula for it, these are the things that I would create, you know, the square root of possible you know, the  sensational and all these different things. That's how I would want to say it to make it make sense for me and make it be fun for me.

Vanessa Vakharia  10:18  
I love it. And okay, so you said you didn't think you had the gift and I have to bring it up. Because my, my whole thing is that there's no such thing as a math person. But we're taught that, and I just think, I went through so much of my life being like, well, I'm just - because I'm like obsessed with Keanu Reeves, and I want to be a famous rock star, like that's my type - 

David E. Talbert  10:38  
(laughing)

Vanessa Vakharia  10:38  
- no, I'm serious though. (laughing) Okay, but anytime I wasn't doing well in math people would be like, "Oh, you're just not a math person". Because we do, like you said, we separate the arts from stem often. And the way you're saying it so beautifully now is the fact that you had to find a way for you and you kind of were like - I mean, David, it's actually very impressive that you do math in your head, and I love it, but it's like - 

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  11:03  
He's very good at that.

Vanessa Vakharia  11:03  
And that's amazing, and that is what being good at math is, but math is also being good at problem solving, it's about thinking creatively, right? It's about seeing things like Journey that no one else sees, even if they're not like the quote unquote, "right" things that the world sees. So like, you do have that gift.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  11:16  
Then I'm definitely a genius!

Vanessa Vakharia  11:25  
You're a genius!! (all laughing)

Vanessa Vakharia  11:27  
I mean, I don't think that's up for debate. Like you're for sure a genius. And I'm sure like we I you know, I'm not gonna get into every all the crazy things I'm sure happened in the making of this film, which you've been writing since 1996. You were solving problems, you were making equations, you weren't maybe writing them down, but that's what I love about this movie, Journey has this way of seeing things. And I even love her little like trainee friend who like, loves her. 

David E. Talbert  11:53  
Oh, Edison.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  11:54  
Edison Latimer!

Vanessa Vakharia  11:54  
Oh my god he's so cute!!  But also like, he doesn't see things her way, but he's just as helpful. That's what I love is I love that every kid's gonna come away from this being like, okay, there is a piece of me that fits in here. And I don't care if people go into STEM, I truly don't. But I care if people feel like they don't belong there, and they don't have the choice. And so, Lyn I was gonna ask you, did you ever feel that way?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  12:20  
I actually didn't feel that way. It was what do I have a love and passion for? Yes. Because like I actually was gonna go into optometry and, you know, went to my first year thinking that, you know, I'm gonna follow my dad's footsteps. And I'm going to be an optometrist like him, but my heart wasn't in it. So I am more of a creative person. And my science, you know, is revealed in more creative ways. But you know, like you said, being a problem solver and troubleshooting things, I am a geek when it comes to technology, you wouldn't think so figuring out these Airbuds (laughing) but you know, I'm the go-to girl when it comes to customer service with my mom, Dave's like, "what are you doing on the phone?" "Oh, I'm showing my mom how to update her computer", or you know, David's like "Lyn can you please help with this?" Or my son's like, "can you come put this together". So that is definitely me, I have my own little pink tool kit that I use around the house. There's just all kinds of things that I'm really into as far as fixing things and putting things together and figuring stuff out. So I think that that is definitely a huge tool that people should have, and kids should have, in general, about finding ways to figure out how to solve and troubleshoot scenarios and situations.

Vanessa Vakharia  13:47  
You sound kind of like an inventor, just gonna say, but it is true! And the other thing I was just gonna throw in as I was having this talk with someone earlier, it's so weird with math and science. It's almost like people think those are the things that make you smart. So like, for example, you'll see someone like you just said actually, I mean, you're so accomplished and the things you've created, right? You're so creative, but someone can paint this beautiful painting, and no one will look at it and be like, wow, that person is so smart. They'll use other words. "They're so creative. They're so thoughtful", whatever. But we place this weird value on intelligence, and the type of intelligence that goes along with math and science. So that's why when people are like, well, who cares about representation in math and science? If you're bad at math and science or you are made to feel at a young age like you can't do it, which happens to lots of girls and a lot of people of color, it just does - when that happens, you internalize that and you carry that with you and you think there's this thing on this planet that I can't do and it makes me stupid. So I really like that your movie opens up the entry point to stem to say there is a way for you to feel good at this. Like Lyn said, it's so well said: if it's not your love or passion, don't do it, but if you WANT to, you can feel good at it and still choose to say no to it.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  15:04  
Absolutely. And also for us in this film, we wanted to honor those inventors in history that weren't recognized, you know, like Edison's last name is Latimer from Lewis Latimer, who also invented the lightbulb, but nobody knows that, you know what I'm saying? So, there are a lot of, you know, Vivien Thomas, who was part of creating the bypass heart surgery that worked behind the doctor that gets credited for it. You know, there are a lot of us out there that are very involved and very entrenched in the sciences and in law and all these type of things - Lewis Latimer also was a patent lawyer - it's like, you would not know these, you would never know unless you really delved in because no one puts them in the books for us to learn. And lately, you know, it's not fair regarding representation, because these kids don't know, "wow, there's someone that looks like me that invented the filament that makes the light bulb light up", you know, that someone that looks like me invented heart surgery, and he never even went to medical school, you know, so these are the things that we want to put out there. And we have a lot of Easter eggs within the film that honor those before us in history, that may have not gotten the credit that they deserve. So you make a good point, just about a shining a light on representation, so that, you know, the kids that haven't seen themselves in this type of media feel "I can do that, too - wow!"

Vanessa Vakharia  16:44  
Yes, yes. And speaking of first, I truly like think that this is the first movie that presents joy in this magical and wondrous way for a black girl to feel capable of like - I actually, I've been racking my brain, I did a poll on my Instagram to ask anyone if they'd seen anything like this, if there are any other characters. As you can imagine, the only movie anyone else comes up with is Hidden Figures, which was recent. So I want to ask you, what do you hope to inspire? In the rest of this media kind of landscape that has such power over kids? I mean, what is the call to action? Do you hope that they take something from this?

David E. Talbert  17:24  
I think it's normalizing people of color and worlds that we wouldn't normally see them in. I mean, you know, we have most of my interviews now about well, representation and all that. But that's because you can't point to one like this. But the goal is to normalize it. So then we're just talking about it as being a good film.

Vanessa Vakharia  17:46  
Totally.

David E. Talbert  17:46  
You know, and, of course, before Jordan Peele did "Get Out", you know, black people didn't last after five minutes in a horror movie, you know, we were paid by the minute, so they give $1,000 a minute and you're like "I'm gonna make a lot of money!"  Well, you're only gonna be alive for five minutes!  (all laughing)  But now, you know, it's normalized. Black Panther - normalized. You can't do any of the Marvel movies without seeing the General or, you know, God rest his soul, Chadwick Boseman. But those characters, Little Sister. So that's what I wanted to do with this is to normalize people of color, and worlds of wonder, and magic and science and all that. So like - of course we're there! So I'm hoping that that's what it does. That's why we threw everything and the kitchen sink into it to make sure, but that's what we're most proud of with the film.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  18:44  
Yeah. And also, like, we felt that doing this, we knew we wanted to make something amazing and bring this vision to life. And at the same time, we knew it also was a responsibility on our shoulders, because if we got it wrong was someone else gonna get another chance? You know, The Wiz came out 40 years ago, if you can believe that, and that wasn't an original IP. So when you look at films that have had the actual releases and been available to us, it's been a long time, it took us 20 years to get this done. And so as David said, it is about normalizing it. And it is also about opportunities and opening doors for other people to get this chance without having to wait so long.

Vanessa Vakharia  19:34  
That is so generous and wonderful, I think that is such a wonderful way of looking at it. And also that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself! (laughing) But the good news is, the good news is you got it right. The other thing is, I was nervous during it because I was like, if they turn this into a musical, like I think people would lose their minds! Like I can't imagine being ... I was like, I'm not kidding, like, I was hysterically bawling. Like I was like, imagine a theater full of people watching this?! Like, is this gonna be a musical? Are you allowed to tell me?

David E. Talbert  20:09  
Yes. We're working on a Broadway musical for this, which is what it was intended to originally be. But yeah, we're taking it to the stage.

Vanessa Vakharia  20:19  
Yeah, I'm like, speechless because I can't even, I feel like it is gonna be the most cathartic, empowering experience. I can't even ... I wish I could be cast in this musical! I have no skills that would be useful, like literally. (all laughing) 

Vanessa Vakharia  20:36  
Okay, so we're talking about representation and I have to tell you this story, because it's crazy. So the story is, yesterday, I'm interviewing this woman named Esther Brunat. She's like, a MATH influencer, okay! From the states, so she's a black mouth influencer. And I'm like, "have you seen Jingle Jangle?", and she LOSES her mind. She's like, "five times!!". Then she pulls out a video of her nice, no joke, who's at the window in the fog, saying, "I'm Journey!" and doing all the magical drawings!

David E. Talbert  21:06  
Awwww

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  21:08  
That's so sweet!

Vanessa Vakharia  21:09  
Also I'm sending you the video because I already asked her - but the thing is, she's not the only one like this, you know, like, you're having such a crazy impact. And to think, these are young girls who are going to grow up with a completely different perception of themselves and their abilities. Thanks to your Christmas movie!

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  21:30  
Oh, my God.

David E. Talbert  21:31  
Yeah it really is. When I start to write something I write to entertain myself. And then you put it out in the world and you hope people love it as much as as you love the love you put into it. But this one has really been overwhelming. The chord that has been struck with this has really been overwhelming, people are really moved by the film in so many different ways. And I'm just very thankful to be, Lyn and I, to be given this gift that we can give to the world. And it's still very overwhelming. But I'm very appreciative and enjoying the ride. This is 30 years, it'll be, in the business for me. So it's very special.

Vanessa Vakharia  22:19  
Ah! Well, I mean, this is so amazing. I want to make sure we talk about the books, because last night, my bedtime story was "The Square Root of Possible"! I put it on my gift list, I've been telling everyone, so tell us about the books! Like what's the vibe, what do we need to know?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  22:38  
So I mean, I want the Jingle Jingle universe to be a part of our world forever, and a part of holidays and really everything. So in my mind, you have to have those ancillary things to keep pushing the message. So I love that song "Square Root of Possible". And that song got me through shooting this movie, I'm in my car singing it, I'm playing it all the time. And I know how this movie touched the little girl in me. So, as that little girl, I knew that I would want to see something added to that. So that's why I did the Square Root of Possible picture books, for those really little ones, which is just a sweet little story about how she helps Jeronicus bring back his "possible".  And I put the words of the song in the back so that they could sing along as well, so anyone that gets a book, they get the download of the song for free if they just upload their receipt. And then the middle grade book was for the 10 and up, that delves into the story a little bit more. My son's seven but he's reading both of them actually. And to have just a full circle moment, I had Felicia Rashad do the audio of the middle grade book, which is Jingle Jangle: The Invention of Jeronicus Jangle - say that 10 times (laughing). So that's really what it's about. I want to continue to support little girls and boys in this way in a positive way, and encourage them to use their imagination and use STEM, and push on the things that they want to do and that they know in their minds and in their hearts that anything is possible.

Vanessa Vakharia  24:38  
Hmm.  I feel like this is gonna be so useful - like, educational resources kind of suck. There isn't stuff like this, right? It's either like a textbook or it's like, nothing. So I think it's gonna be really cool to see what you guys come up with like, I'm kind of envisioning - since I'm here to pitch my idea (laughing) like a Where's Waldo type book, but like for for all the things you were talking, about like all the little easter eggs and - anyways okay, whatever, who cares we can cut this out of the pocast. (all laughing) But I just thought about it!

Vanessa Vakharia  25:09  
Okay. Oh, the other thing I was gonna say quickly, me and David (our podcast technical producer) are in a band, like a rock band, and I'm putting the hard sell on us covering square root of possible, like a rock version!

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  25:20  
Oh you better send that!

Vanessa Vakharia  25:21  
We have to do it! And I play keytar, so we could have like a keytar in it. David, you have to do it. 

David E. Talbert  25:27  
Oh wow, I love it!

David Kochberg  25:27  
(In background) You're really putting me on the spot.

Vanessa Vakharia  25:30  
I guess that's a yes. Okay. Final two questions. What would you change, if you could change one thing about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?

David E. Talbert  25:39  
For me it would be to make it fun, and make it not seem like you had to be a rocket scientist to do it. And so that's why I started to make it fun into formulas in my head and do things and then I would figure out my own way of solving equations in my head and just made it simple for me and easy and now it's fun.  But I think yeah, if it didn't be like, you know, "you have to do blah, blah, blah" I think I would change that, I would make fun.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  26:13  
Yeah, same here. But I would do - because I remember music. You know, I love the music. I love, you remember that (singing) "two plus two is four, four plus four is eight. Eight plus eight is 16. And 16 and 16 is 32", there were all these like fun little songs that would be done - you remember The Count on Sesame Street?

Vanessa Vakharia  26:34  
Yes!  I just love David's face.

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  26:37  
He's like, "no".  I'm sorry, is another era.  (laughing)

David E. Talbert  26:42  
Mine was Schoolhouse Rock. That was my era - "3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30, man and a woman had a little baby".

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  26:44  
Yes, yes! So I miss stuff like that. Because it's, it's all about making it fun. And then you don't even realize, it hits you when you're at the grocery store. And you're like, you know, 16 and 16 are 32, you know? (laughing) So, I think definitely making it more fun adding these elements, including something like movies like this in the curriculum to get the kids excited about, "oh, maybe I do want to be an inventor or mathematician" or, you know, do formulas in an amazing way and, and add some art to it, because I think you definitely get more more kids excited about it. And there's so many resources out there now to help with that, like these box kits that they send out and stem kits and getting people involved like you doing podcasts, and all of that I just feel like we need to group together a little bit more on how to present it so that kids are excited about it.

Vanessa Vakharia  27:58  
I love it. And honestly, I think - time's over for the school boards to be ruling it.  I'm kind of like, you know what, you had your chance, and you have failed. So now it's up to actually people like influencers, people in the media, people who are creative, it's up to us to solve the problem now. And the truth is, the biggest influence on a kid's life is not what happens in the classroom. It's what happens outside of the classroom. So the whole "you can't be what you can't see" like, you can see it now. Right? And as that happens, I think that stuff will change and that idea of bringing creativity into the classroom, you're right and i think it's not only in like, "oh, we're painting", but in like appreciating getting the wrong answer, appreciating the creativity required to solve a problem. So you're entirely right. And you're up there, you're doing it, you're doing it. 

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  28:45  
Thank you!

Vanessa Vakharia  28:45  
Well, thank you!  Alright, last one. Last question is What would you say to someone who says "well, I'm just not a math person".

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  28:56  
Now, I mean, now that you beat it into my head, I'm gonna say everyone's a math person!!! (all laughing)

David E. Talbert  29:02  
You know, can you solve a problem? Can you screw in a lightbulb? You're a math person!

Vanessa Vakharia  29:11  
Yes!!! (laughing)

David E. Talbert  29:12  
Well we work out formulas in every moment in our life, we're working out formulas. You know even growing up in the church, for me there's a scripture - one of my favorite scriptures of "faith without works is dead" and so that's an equation: faith PLUS works, so it's these things added equal this, and so I look at the formulas, the spiritual formulas that helped me get through life but I think we're always working out formulas. I think we're all math people.

Vanessa Vakharia  29:49  
I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna cry and I have blue eyeliner on. So I just need like - that was so beautiful!

David E. Talbert  29:56  
Well, thank you. This whole thing you know Lyn's nephew helped with the formulas, Jalon, who is a - what is his gig?

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  30:06  
He's an engineer for Intel.

David E. Talbert  30:09  
He's an engineer. And then we brought in an astrophysicist in London that helped. So because we wanted actual formulas, I talked about momentum and talked about propelling yourself through, so all these things were about how do you keep things moving and so we took a lot of time with those but but I'm glad they struck a chord with you. I'm glad they struck a chord with young girls and boys everywhere. And, again, thankful for the opportunity to share this with the world. Thanks for having us.

Vanessa Vakharia  30:44  
Thank you so so much. It's been an absolute pleasure - everyone literally stop what you're doing right now, go to Netflix, put on Jingle Jangle! The square root of impossible ...

David E. Talbert  30:59  
Is possible in you!

Vanessa Vakharia  30:59  
Haha I was like "you say it, you say it!", Alright - bye!

Lyn Sisson-Talbert  31:05  
Thank you!!

David E. Talbert  31:07  
Thanks so much.

Vanessa Vakharia  31:09  
I'm not crying you're crying was that convincing? Because okay, fine, whatever, obviously I'm definitely crying and it's quite clear. I know guys, this was the gushiest interview of all the time. But this movie somehow combined my two favorite things in the world. And clearly, I just couldn't contain myself! And I mean, aren't over the top displays of love what Christmas is all about?! Anyways, you've heard me say it here before and I'll say it again a million times: you can't be what you can't see. Well, thanks to the Talberts there are tons of kids of all ages out there who are already seeing new possibilities for themselves. And I am so excited to finally see this shift in the media landscape. It truly takes a village, but hey, we're doing it guys and yes, I am obviously totally low-key working on my audition tape for Jingle Jingle 2, I mean, I have no clue if they're planning a sequel or not, but whatever I am inspired. So now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch Jingle Jangle again to catch all of those easter eggs that the Talberts spilled the tea about.

Vanessa Vakharia  32:04  
I can't wait to hear what you thought of this magical movie, so please hit me up on socials at @themathguru and tell me all about it. So much love to our producer Sabina Wex for being the actual square root of possible by successfully getting Lyn and David on this podcast. And thanks to our technical producer David Kochberg for making me sound somewhat sensible and coherent through all the gushing. Thank YOU guys for listening to our first ever Math Therapy festive special. Please have the most magical of holidays and I'll see ya on the other side for season three!